ruveyn wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
I marked "Other", because I'm a religious Jew who isn't still waiting for his Messiah, because I believe the Torah clearly points to Yeshua of Nazareth, Him being the only one who could have fulfilled all of the Torah's 300+ messianic prophecies.
I am a Christian of the first type that existed, but both many Christians and many Jews refuse to correctly recognize me.
See, in modern Judaism*, you're allowed to accept anyone whosoever as the messiah, as long as he isn't Yeshua.
And in much of modern Christendom*, you're not allowed to be Jewish, or at least it's frowned upon. (Darn. Too bad their savior was Jewish! I guess they'll have to excommunicate Him.)
*not to say biblical Judaism
*not to say biblical Christianity
If you believe in the Trinity you are no Jew. Read the Shma sometimes.
ruveyn
Why is
Elohim plural?
Quote:
Jews say that the Shema (pronounced Shmah), "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord"1 contradicts the Christian doctrine that Jesus is God. In addition, there are a number of other verses that proclaim that God is one (see God is One). However, the triunity of God is taught throughout the Old Testament, including the Shema! How can a statement of oneness imply plurality? The word translated "one" from the Hebrew is echad, which demonstrates compound unity of oneness. Specific examples of how echad demonstrates compound unity are found below:
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one [echad] flesh. (Genesis 2:24)
Now the whole earth used the same [echad] language and the same [echad] words. (Genesis 11:1)
And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one [echad] people, and they all have the same [echad] language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. (Genesis 11:6)
Then we will give you our daughters and take your daughters for ourselves. We'll settle among you and become one [echad] people with you. (Genesis 34:16)
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the LORD and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one [echad] voice, and said, "All the words which the LORD has spoken we will do!" (Exodus 24:3)
Then they came to the valley of Eshcol and from there cut down a branch with a single [echad] cluster of grapes; and they carried it on a pole between two men, with some of the pomegranates and the figs. (Numbers 13:23)
The whole [echad] assembly numbered 42,360, (Ezra 2:64)
They will be my people, and I will be their God. I will give them singleness [echad] of heart and action, so that they will always fear me for their own good and the good of their children after them. (Jeremiah 32:38-39)
Genesis 1:26
"And
God said, Let
us make man in
our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Genesis 3:22-23
"And the
LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of
us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the
LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."
Interesting in that last passage how He shifts from YHWH ("the LORD"), to "us", back to YHWH instantly, showing that He is both plural and single. It's because he IS one, and that one is also three. No, we can't understand it, and Christians admit they don't. How could any human understand God?
The segol in Hebrew is 3 dots that are considered 1 vowel sound. What if someone asked you which of those three dots you were speaking? You'd say, "Well, all of them." The person might reply, "But you only made ONE sound! How can you say you spoke all three of them?!" Not trying to explain God, just showing one way that three and one can be functionally the same. God, I believe, can function as one and as three. He is, after all, all-powerful.
Last edited by Ragtime on 21 Oct 2011, 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.