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Beaux
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25 Nov 2011, 12:48 am

I... I'm not even sure what that means. :? Could you define "the universe seeing/experienceing/knowing itself". I'm pretty sure that the universe doesn't do much more than exist. And some would even debate that. :P



cw10
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25 Nov 2011, 12:51 am

Beaux wrote:
I... I'm not even sure what that means. :? Could you define "the universe seeing/experienceing/knowing itself". I'm pretty sure that the universe doesn't do much more than exist. And some would even debate that. :P


That would be quite boring.

This piece of the universe that's typing right now thinks someday I'd like to pull back the so called curtain and see what lies beyond our little house of stars.



naturalplastic
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25 Nov 2011, 1:53 pm

cw10 wrote:
Beaux wrote:
I... I'm not even sure what that means. :? Could you define "the universe seeing/experienceing/knowing itself". I'm pretty sure that the universe doesn't do much more than exist. And some would even debate that. :P


That would be quite boring.

This piece of the universe that's typing right now thinks someday I'd like to pull back the so called curtain and see what lies beyond our little house of stars.


So you're saying that your question would make sense if you could only explain where you were coming from, but since its too complicated to explain where you are coming from you're just going to leave your question to die in the emergency room.

Correct?



visagrunt
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25 Nov 2011, 4:21 pm

cw10 wrote:
If the universe can see itself, experience itself, and know itself - Can it not see, experience, and know something other than itself?


cw10 wrote:
In other words, can the universe evolve beyond it's current limits?


The second is not an alternative statement of the first, so already we are in the realm of pseudo-intellectual w*king.

As to the first question, I see at least two errors of construction:

First, you have failed to define the universe. Absent such a definition, we cannot determine whether there is any possibility of anything other than the universe existing. Yet if the universe is to interact with anything other than itself, existence is a necessary precondition of such interaction.

Second, even if we accept that something other than the universe exists, nothing in the universe can interact with anything that exists outside its time cone. If that principle applies to all objects in the universe, then by extension it extends to the entirety of the universe. Suppose we choose three points of space-time in the universe, A, B and C. Suppose that B lies within the time cone of both A and C, but that A and C are in mutually exclusive time cones. An observer at B is incapable of receiving information about A and transmitting that to C. The concept of a universal awareness that extends beyond its own limits violates this necessary principle.

You second question is entirely different. If we accept the model of an expanding universe, then necessarily the state of the universe is different at different points in linear time. But since you haven't defined the type of evolution that you are looking for, perhaps a change of state is insufficient to meet your expectation.


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naturalplastic
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26 Nov 2011, 9:54 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cw10 wrote:
Beaux wrote:
I... I'm not even sure what that means. :? Could you define "the universe seeing/experienceing/knowing itself". I'm pretty sure that the universe doesn't do much more than exist. And some would even debate that. :P


That would be quite boring.

This piece of the universe that's typing right now thinks someday I'd like to pull back the so called curtain and see what lies beyond our little house of stars.


So you're saying that your question would make sense if you could only explain where you were coming from, but since its too complicated to explain where you are coming from you're just going to leave your question to die in the emergency room.

Correct?


No response.

So I take that as a "yes"- that you're admitting that your question doesnt make any sense as a question.