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atheists and aspergers?

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ruveyn
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14 Dec 2011, 8:04 am

Robdemanc wrote:

So in western religions you have to be materialist if you are an atheist. What if you believed in a non physical realm that is not governed by any kind of god, it is just there, like the physical world is just there?


That is possible to do. But there is just as much evidence for a non-physical world as there is for the gods, which is to say none at all.

People believe in all sorts of things for which there is no empirical evidence.

ruveyn



Robdemanc
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14 Dec 2011, 10:24 am

ruveyn wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:

So in western religions you have to be materialist if you are an atheist. What if you believed in a non physical realm that is not governed by any kind of god, it is just there, like the physical world is just there?


That is possible to do. But there is just as much evidence for a non-physical world as there is for the gods, which is to say none at all.

People believe in all sorts of things for which there is no empirical evidence.

ruveyn


I know but if people believed that would that mean they are an atheist, or would it mean something else?



ruveyn
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14 Dec 2011, 11:00 am

Robdemanc wrote:

I know but if people believed that would that mean they are an atheist, or would it mean something else?


It means that they are human. Humans just live to believe in sugar plum fairies and the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

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14 Dec 2011, 12:31 pm

I personally don't think there's a connection between atheism and asperger's. I for one have Asperger's and I'm also a practicing Catholic. Don't ask me why, since someone shouldn't have to explain their religious beliefs to another.



MarcusTulliusCicero
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14 Dec 2011, 12:47 pm

All this debate, and they say people with Autism think in black and white



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14 Dec 2011, 1:01 pm

SPKx wrote:
I personally don't think there's a connection between atheism and asperger's. I for one have Asperger's and I'm also a practicing Catholic. Don't ask me why, since someone shouldn't have to explain their religious beliefs to another.

Why should I respect your claim that "religious beliefs" are some special category where no explanation has to be given? Is that belief that religious beliefs shouldn't have to be explained also something that shouldn't have to be explained as well?



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14 Dec 2011, 1:12 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:

So in western religions you have to be materialist if you are an atheist. What if you believed in a non physical realm that is not governed by any kind of god, it is just there, like the physical world is just there?


That is possible to do. But there is just as much evidence for a non-physical world as there is for the gods, which is to say none at all.

People believe in all sorts of things for which there is no empirical evidence.


There is no empirical evidence for a material reality either. If epistemic justification is based on empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows.



Robdemanc
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14 Dec 2011, 1:46 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
All this debate, and they say people with Autism think in black and white


I think what they mean by "thinking black and white" is that we see both sides simultaneously. Not that we think either one or the other.



Robdemanc
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14 Dec 2011, 1:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:

I know but if people believed that would that mean they are an atheist, or would it mean something else?


It means that they are human. Humans just live to believe in sugar plum fairies and the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

ruveyn


But with the definition of atheism being that the person does not believe in a god or any kind of all powerful ruler of the universe. If people only believed in random thinks like sugar fairies and candy mountains (which do not rule over the universe) would that make them atheists?

I think it is incorrect to say that all atheists must be materialists, but the reverse would be true.



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14 Dec 2011, 1:51 pm

Telekon wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:

So in western religions you have to be materialist if you are an atheist. What if you believed in a non physical realm that is not governed by any kind of god, it is just there, like the physical world is just there?


That is possible to do. But there is just as much evidence for a non-physical world as there is for the gods, which is to say none at all.

People believe in all sorts of things for which there is no empirical evidence.


There is no empirical evidence for a material reality either. If epistemic justification is based on empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows.


I think its because matter is difficult to define. We cannot really say what it is. I think of it in terms of trapped energy, or finitely distributed energy. So I reckon materialists have the problem of saying what it is that they think is the primary element.



ruveyn
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14 Dec 2011, 2:23 pm

Telekon wrote:

There is no empirical evidence for a material reality either. If epistemic justification is based on empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows.


Tell me that the next time you get hit in the head with a brick or run over by a car.

ruveyn



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14 Dec 2011, 2:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Telekon wrote:

There is no empirical evidence for a material reality either. If epistemic justification is based on empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows.


Tell me that the next time you get hit in the head with a brick or run over by a car.

ruveyn


That is a question begging proof of material reality. If there is a material world my body would be part of it. Just because I take it for granted that there is a material reality doesn't mean one exists.



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14 Dec 2011, 11:30 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
SPKx wrote:
I personally don't think there's a connection between atheism and asperger's. I for one have Asperger's and I'm also a practicing Catholic. Don't ask me why, since someone shouldn't have to explain their religious beliefs to another.

Why should I respect your claim that "religious beliefs" are some special category where no explanation has to be given? Is that belief that religious beliefs shouldn't have to be explained also something that shouldn't have to be explained as well?


Because quite frankly, it's none of your business!



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14 Dec 2011, 11:47 pm

Telekon wrote:
There is no empirical evidence for a material reality either. If epistemic justification is based on empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows.

"I refute it thus" (Samuel Johnson).



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15 Dec 2011, 1:42 pm

dmm1010 wrote:
Telekon wrote:
There is no empirical evidence for a material reality either. If epistemic justification is based on empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows.

"I refute it thus" (Samuel Johnson).


I'm not advancing idealism. I'm saying if we are only justified in believing something on the basis of empirical evidence, then global skepticism follows. Kicking a stone doesn't prove the existence of an objective, mind-independent reality, because both the foot and the rock would be part of that reality. Ruveyn's suggestion that I get hit by a car assumes the same thing. Thus it is question begging. Ruveyn's belief in a world that exists independently of his or any mind is just as faith-based as the person who believes in a transcendent reality.



ruveyn
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15 Dec 2011, 1:44 pm

Telekon wrote:
Thus it is question begging. Ruveyn's belief in a world that exists independently of his or any mind is just as faith-based as someone who believes in transcendent realities.


Put your money where your mouth is. Cross the busiest street in your city blindfold against the light. See if you really believe it is all an illusion. When you are done with that go to the top of the nearest tall building and jump off the roof. Falling and the ground are just illusions, right?

ruveyn