What do you think about abortion?

Page 2 of 4 [ 57 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Abgal64
Velociraptor

Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 408

09 Feb 2012, 8:47 pm

CoMF wrote:

I still find it amusing that there's no shortage of men offering their opinions on something that they'll never have to experience firsthand.

Just sayin'...

Red herring: Just because I am male has nothing to do with whether my conclusions with regards to the ethicality of abortion are valid.

And by the way, males are necessary to get females pregnant in humans.

So either fight for the government to stop making a male pay child support if said male has protected sex and wanted an abortion of the fetus or admit defeat.

_________________
Learn the patterns of the past; consider what is not now; help what is not the past; plan for the future.
-Myself

CoMF
Deinonychus

Joined: 7 Feb 2012
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 328

09 Feb 2012, 9:29 pm

Abgal64 wrote:

I do not doubt for one minute that abortion does, in fact, indirectly affect men who are the "other half" in a relationship with a pregnant woman, but the changes which he is subjected to are purely financial and emotional. For a woman, she's subjected to not only financial and emotional changes, but physiological changes as well which, in some rare cases, actually place her life in jeopardy.

Suffice to say, I stand by my claim that women should be the final arbiter in this "debate" independent of my own personal views on abortion while taking the needs of both the mother and the father into equal consideration.

Feel better now?

Abgal64
Velociraptor

Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 408

09 Feb 2012, 9:43 pm

CoMF wrote:

Abgal64 wrote:

1. Abortion is statistically proven to be far safer than giving birth, so your proposition is invalid.

2. I said "red herring" for a reason: Truth is truth, falsehood is falsehood, both truth and falsehood is both truth and falsehood and thus has nothing to do with who is involved.

3. If you believe that women and men have equal responsibly when involved in a given pregnancy, why do you state that choice rests but with the impregnated women?

4. Emotions are irrelevant in an intellectual debate save where they harm reasoning.

5. You never caused me to have undesirable emotions in any significant level, thus I shall answer your final interrogative sentence with the Kleene logic value "I."

_________________
Learn the patterns of the past; consider what is not now; help what is not the past; plan for the future.
-Myself

CoMF
Deinonychus

Joined: 7 Feb 2012
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 328

09 Feb 2012, 10:17 pm

Abgal64 wrote:

1. Abortion is statistically proven to be far safer than giving birth, so your proposition is invalid.

If you re-read the first paragraph of my response, I made no mention of abortion at all. I implied that pregnancy, not abortion, can in some rare cases place the mother's life in jeopardy, ergo your rebuttal is invalid.

Abgal64 wrote:

2. I said "red herring" for a reason: Truth is truth, falsehood is falsehood, both truth and falsehood is both truth and falsehood and thus has nothing to do with who is involved.

Care to elaborate and how I'm distracting everyone from the core issue at hand when I was attempting to pre-emptively eliminate the extraneous talking points that commonly surround it?

Abgal64 wrote:

3. If you believe that women and men have equal responsibly when involved in a given pregnancy, why do you state that choice rests but with the impregnated women?

Because ultimately, I cannot force a pregnant woman to undergo an abortion or carry a pregnancy to term. It's called "free will."

Abgal64 wrote:

4. Emotions are irrelevant in an intellectual debate save where they harm reasoning.

I think what you meant to say was that they're irrelevant except in cases where they don't serve as a stumbling block to reasoning.

Besides, properly utilized emotions can make for some very eloquently stated arguments.

Abgal64 wrote:

5. You never caused me to have undesirable emotions in any significant level, thus I shall answer your final interrogative sentence with the Kleene logic value "I."

I was being facetious, but ok...

simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

09 Feb 2012, 10:43 pm

I think women should determine what happens to their fertilized eggs and embryos. Just as they do in fertility clinics. But you don't see many pro-lifers going after all of the wasted fertilized eggs from that process. I guess you have to break a few to make an omelet. Family values and all.

I also believe in assisted suicide and capital punishment in theory. They just arent using capital punishment correctly today.

Abgal64
Velociraptor

Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 408

09 Feb 2012, 10:47 pm

CoMF wrote:

Abgal64 wrote:

1. Abortion is statistically proven to be far safer than giving birth, so your proposition is invalid.

Abgal64 wrote:

2. I said "red herring" for a reason: Truth is truth, falsehood is falsehood, both truth and falsehood is both truth and falsehood and thus has nothing to do with who is involved.

Care to elaborate and how I'm distracting everyone from the core issue at hand when I was attempting to pre-emptively eliminate the extraneous talking points that commonly surround it?

Abgal64 wrote:

3. If you believe that women and men have equal responsibly when involved in a given pregnancy, why do you state that choice rests but with the impregnated women?

Because ultimately, I cannot force a pregnant woman to undergo an abortion or carry a pregnancy to term. It's called "free will."

Abgal64 wrote:

4. Emotions are irrelevant in an intellectual debate save where they harm reasoning.

Abgal64 wrote:

5. You never caused me to have undesirable emotions in any significant level, thus I shall answer your final interrogative sentence with the Kleene logic value "I."

I was being facetious, but ok...

I did not say that you were distracting others from the debate at hand. However, your belief that men should have no say in what happens to their potential offspring ignores the fact that the point of origin of any truth value has nothing to due with its nature.

Please stop acting foolish. With regards to your statement that you did not mention your first paragraph with any mention of abortion: "I do not doubt for one minute that abortion does ..." Thus, you did indeed mention abortion not only in your first paragraph but in your first sentence.

Indeed, emotions are to be harnessed to serve a rational mind.

With regards to free will, all actions have consequences. And yes, people can be controlled such as through fear of punishment, desire for rewards or simply being installed with ideas, whatever their truth value; authority requires control, civilization requires control, anything above New Guinean Neolithic tribalism requires control, yet they all exist. Granted, some people are more difficult to control than others but their is always the option of simply eliminating undesirable people via an overwhelming mass of obedient people.

_________________
Learn the patterns of the past; consider what is not now; help what is not the past; plan for the future.
-Myself

puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

09 Feb 2012, 10:53 pm

simon_says wrote:

They just arent using capital punishment correctly today.

Could you explain that? Make another thread if you feel it would derail the topic.

_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.

CoMF
Deinonychus

Joined: 7 Feb 2012
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 328

10 Feb 2012, 12:11 am

Abgal64 wrote:

Fair enough, but it is my view that a man has every right discussing how pregnancy and abortion affect him from financial and emotional standpoints. From a physiological standpoint, he has no grounds for pontificating whether his pregnant partner should undergo an abortion or carry the pregnancy to term. That is what I take issue with, since it adds nothing to the discussion.

Abgal64 wrote:

Please stop acting foolish. With regards to your statement that you did not mention your first paragraph with any mention of abortion: "I do not doubt for one minute that abortion does ..." Thus, you did indeed mention abortion not only in your first paragraph but in your first sentence.

I concede my error.

Abgal64 wrote:

Indeed, emotions are to be harnessed to serve a rational mind.

Nice to see we agree on that.

Abgal64 wrote:

With regards to free will, all actions have consequences. And yes, people can be controlled such as through fear of punishment, desire for rewards or simply being installed with ideas, whatever their truth value; authority requires control, civilization requires control, anything above New Guinean Neolithic tribalism requires control, yet they all exist. Granted, some people are more difficult to control than others but their is always the option of simply eliminating undesirable people via an overwhelming mass of obedient people.

Actions indeed have consequences, but if this is an argument for exerting your "authority" by overriding a pregnant woman's decision to abort a fetus or carry a pregnancy to term, I believe some clarification and supporting arguments are in order.

auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,210
Location: the island of defective toy santas

10 Feb 2012, 5:27 am

AFAIC, it is properly between the woman and her god, anybody else interfering with a woman's presently legal right for self-determination is a buttinski who would do well to learn what it is like to be unintentionally pregnant and bereft of support. if i were a woman and some moral hypocrite got in my face to tell me i was a whore for visiting the planned parenthood clinic, i'd do something truly nasty to that creepazoid that would land me in jail.

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran