Is freedom a meaningless concept?

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24 May 2012, 11:18 pm

Freedom is not meaningless, but it is quite broad, so it makes more sense to define its limits in a sort of philosophical framework, such as one where each individual's freedom is maximized in a society such that the limits on individual freedom are only those that would prevents others from exercising theirs. Christian theology may define freedom according to their ideas about their god's creation of humanity and free will.

babybird
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26 May 2012, 7:05 pm

I'm Free :wink:

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ruveyn
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26 May 2012, 8:45 pm

edgewaters wrote:

What an uncommonly British notion for an American to have, rejecting the concept of natural law and inalienable rights. Well ... maybe there's some hope for your bunch after all!

If you ask just about any Unitedstatesean who was educated in science or mathematics or formal philosophy, you will get just about the same response. It is a function of how one was schooled and trained to think. I was brought up in a tradition of critical thinking since my teen age years, probably even before.

Not every American is sh*t stupid.

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slave
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27 May 2012, 12:17 am

donnie_darko wrote:

Every freedom you get denies you another, ultimately. The right to own private property denies the freedom to roam around wherever you please. The right for women to a career denies them the right to NOT have a career. Being 'privileged' in a society, by being white or whatever, denies you the right to be proud of your culture. The right to freedom of speech denies you the right to not have to hear opinions you find distasteful. If we were given the right to murder, we'd lose our right to walk around safely.

I'm not saying we shouldn't or should guarantee these kinds of freedoms, but I sorta think the entire concept of freedom is false for this reason.

Freedom Is Slavery.

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27 May 2012, 12:20 am

babybird wrote:

I'm Free

You are not free.

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27 May 2012, 12:41 pm

Slave how is freedom slavery if freedom is slavery then african americans are still enslaved?

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27 May 2012, 12:42 pm

Freedom means being free if it leads to happiness.

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27 May 2012, 12:47 pm

snapcap wrote:

Freedom means being free if it leads to happiness.

According to Slave it means slavery.

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27 May 2012, 12:49 pm

Joker wrote:

snapcap wrote:

Freedom means being free if it leads to happiness.

According to Slave it means slavery.

Whatever floats your boat.

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27 May 2012, 12:51 pm

snapcap wrote:

Joker wrote:

snapcap wrote:

Freedom means being free if it leads to happiness.

According to Slave it means slavery.

Whatever floats your boat.

freedom flaots my boat.

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28 May 2012, 2:43 am

You know, you're generally not supposed to take concepts this literally.

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28 May 2012, 6:50 am

Libertarians are really opposed to freedom. According to von Mises, government was serving to give people choices that they did not have before and that this new freedom is something to him that was unacceptable, the so-called natural constraints must be kept on for the vast majority of people who must be forced into a life of very little choices subject to the whims of a small elite who have the right to a free lunch at their expense.

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28 May 2012, 7:21 am

xenon13 wrote:

Libertarians ideologically oppose taxation and government regulation and grudging concede very little when government becomes a necessary evil. Libertarians regard government as a Bad Thing to be tolerated only when No Government is a worse thing.

And kindly quote book, page and verse where von Mises knocks the libertarian idea.l I want to see it from his pen, not your assertions which I do not accept at face value.

ruveyn

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28 May 2012, 7:24 am

Von Mises was not attacking libertarianism... he simply said that freedom for most people is a very bad thing and they should be kept in their places. Women especially. The limiting of government, he reasoned, is required to that end. Von Mises is one of the tin gods of libertarianism, isn't he. Libertarians really don't want freedom for most people, only for the tiny elite on top who have the sacred right to a free lunch taken from the rest.

ruveyn
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28 May 2012, 7:35 am

xenon13 wrote:

Wrong! They want as small a government as is consistent with peace and order in the society.

Government is not Good. It is just Less Bad than some other alternatives.

There never ever ever has been a Good Government. There have been Less Bad Governments and then only for a limited period of time until they too, became tyrannies. Government is an admission of irredeemable sin of the human race.

ruveyn

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28 May 2012, 9:49 am

ruveyn wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Yet you guys still need government to do the dirty work of protecting the haves from the desperate and starving have nots.

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