US Officials Knew Libya attack was work of Al Qaeda 24 hrs..
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
There you righties go again with trying to claim the President is somehow a secret Muslim.
And incidentally, it was George W. Bush who had described Islam as a great religion highjacked by extremists. If anything, I give Bush credit for working hard to fight Islamaphobia. Obama is only following in his predecessor's footsteps. The only reason why Obama has been portrayed as weak on Islamic terrorism is to delegitimize him and his presidency.
And as a matter of fact, Timothy McVeigh was hardly a lone nut. His partner in crime, Terry Nichols, is now serving a life sentence, and McVeigh was seen by more than one witness with a third man called in the press John Doe number two, when buying bomb making components. On top of that, both McVeigh and Nichols had had associations with anti-government white supremacist and militia groups. So yes, McVeigh fits the proper definition of a terrorist much better than the lunatic Fort Hood shooter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I said he had a cultural blindspot, I did not say he was a closet muslim, fact of the matter is that his cultural blindspot could be the result of his childhood, it could also be from the influence of sitting in Rev. Wright's church for 20+ years in conjunction with his associations to Bill Ayers.
Kraichgauer, Obama is not following in Bush's footsteps on this. While Bush was careful to make sure that this was solely about Muslim fanatics and not Islam in general, Obama has taken an entirely different approach. Obama tries to lead people to believe that these attacks aren't terrorist attacks or that they were somehow spontaneous or there are no ties to Islam at all.
If Obama did this across the board I would just chalk this up as being naive, but he doesn't. His surrogates and his underlings are quick to try to tie the Tea Party to violent actions as well as falsely labeling them as racist. His speech on civility looks like it was intended to only apply to Conservatives that we shouldn't have the right to object to his insane policies.
Fact of the matter is Kraichgauer, Obama and Bush are entirely different. Bush didn't view Democrats (you included) as his enemy, he viewed you and other Democrats as people that simply disagreed with him, but at the end of the day you were fellow Americans. Obama seems to view Republicans, the tea party, etc. as his personal enemy.
If I remember correctly, Timothy McVeigh got kicked out of a militia group cause they thought he wasn't exactly playing with a full deck (to put it blunty the militia group though McVeigh was nuts). We also know that Fort Hood shooter was influenced somewhat by radical Islamic groups, so it could be argued he wasn't acting alone also.
So are you saying that the only reason the Fort Hood shooter isn't a terrorist is cause he used guns instead of a bomb, or are you saying the fact he had a smaller body count means he isn't a terrorist?
Looks to me that both Timothy McVeigh and the Fort Hood Shooter are terrorists, they just had different motivations.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
I'll concede what defines a terrorist is often in the eye of the beholder.
In regard to Obama giving Islamic terrorism a pass - as a matter of fact, he's agreed the recent attacks were the work of Al Qaeda. I'll repeat what I've written earlier - he probably didn't want to jump the gun till all the facts were in. And I seriously doubt Rev. Wright or Ayers have ever had any Pro-Islamist notions that they had passed on to Obama or anyone.
And when did I say that what makes McVeigh fit the definition of a terrorist better than the Fort Hood guy was that he had used a bomb instead of a gun?
And I'll reiterate - McVeigh had had compatriots in the Oklahoma City bomb plot, whereas the shooter had been acting alone. And reading Islamist websites hardly constitutes involvement in a conspiracy. If that were so, then Norway could demand the extradition of the American idiots for their Anti-Muslim websites that their shooter had constantly logged onto. And as for those militias claiming they had expelled McVeigh for being a nutcase - possible, but it's just as possible that they might have been covering their tracks to hide involvement. As a matter of fact, we know from informants that local anti-government groups in Oklahoma had been planning such a bombing themselves.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Looks like this is about to get a lot worse for the White House:
Two House Republicans say they have been informed by whistleblowers that the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi was attacked and threatened 13 times before the incident last month that killed four Americans.
Reps. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) sent Secretary of State Hillary Clinton a letter on Tuesday that detailed the whistleblowers’ allegations.
“Based on information provided to the Committee by individuals with direct knowledge of events in Libya, the attack that claimed the ambassador’s life was the latest in a long line of attacks on Western diplomats and officials in Libya in the months leading up to September 11, 2012,” Issa and Chaffetz wrote. “It was clearly never, as Administration officials once insisted, the result of a popular protest."
The congressmen said the consulate asked for more security to deal with the growing threat but was turned down by the administration.
“In addition, multiple U.S. federal government officials have confirmed to the Committee that, prior to the September 11 attack, the U.S. mission in Libya made repeated requests for increased security in Benghazi. The mission in Libya, however, was denied these resources by officials in Washington.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs ... ts-attacks
Anyone else think that the Obama Administration is trying to stage a massive cover-up and the mainstream media is complicit in all of this. Seriously how would the media be reacting if this happened under Bush.
One thing for sure. Our consulates and embassies were NOT given sufficient security by the Powers that Be in Washington. The puts the onus right on Lord Obama and his Administration.
ruveyn
Last edited by ruveyn on 04 Oct 2012, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It was the building that was at fault, undefendable. It was a Mission, not a Consulate, just a house, with no safe room. Two were lost there, the rest fell back to a safe house, where two more were lost, outside to a mortor round.
There was no way to defend, and a few dozen Marines would have just been targets. What next, arm them with rockets, mortors?
That would not work if their base was not defendable.
It did trigger a popular protest, pro American and against armed groups taking over bases, hospitals. Too many guns, too many foreign fighters, and the government did step in.
The same fighters went on to Sryia, and Libya does not want a civil war, have a dictator, or become a colony again.
Also, the government is in Tripoli, Diplomatic relations are with the government. What would you think about Chinese Intelligence making contact with our crime families and street gangs?
On the subject of Terrorists, An American General said our troops are being Murdered in Afganistan. He was shocked anyone could be murdered in a war zone. He was upset that they were supposed to be our allies.
The same 1/5 now being killed by men in uniform, is the number that seems constant over wars from "Friendly Fire."
To the General, calling in an airstrike on a wedding, is not murder. 100,000 dead in Iraq, not murder, Freedom Fries!
Islamic people live in a close group of countries, all speak the same language, travel, vacation, visit shrines, marry people from other countries, and are all somewhat related.
They see the bombings like we would if they were happening in Kansas. Church and wedding party destroyed, by godless Chinese drones!
Like Southern Baptists that support liquor stores and casinos, even the strict on paper sects of Islam are known to take a sip now and then, party like an animal in Europe, here it is New Orleans.
Political Islam comes from the Saudis, chopping off heads, for most crimes, thought crimes, women out of their cages without a leash, which they try to export. They pay people to spread their ideas, and give them guns.
Osama, the 9/11 crew, Taliban, all Saudi funded.
We get the vauge Terrorist stories, the people of the middle east get the reality, Assad's dad killed 20,000, banned the Muslim Brotherhood, which was funded by his neighbors the Saudi.
As the girl said in Poldergiest, "Their back."
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
I have a libertarian friend in my church who told me he thought the Afghans and Iraqis have legitimate reasons for being angry at us. After all, he said, how would we feel in Canada had invaded and occupied us, and dropped bombs that killed our people?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Two House Republicans say they have been informed by whistleblowers that the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi was attacked and threatened 13 times before the incident last month that killed four Americans.
Reps. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) sent Secretary of State Hillary Clinton a letter on Tuesday that detailed the whistleblowers’ allegations.
“Based on information provided to the Committee by individuals with direct knowledge of events in Libya, the attack that claimed the ambassador’s life was the latest in a long line of attacks on Western diplomats and officials in Libya in the months leading up to September 11, 2012,” Issa and Chaffetz wrote. “It was clearly never, as Administration officials once insisted, the result of a popular protest."
The congressmen said the consulate asked for more security to deal with the growing threat but was turned down by the administration.
“In addition, multiple U.S. federal government officials have confirmed to the Committee that, prior to the September 11 attack, the U.S. mission in Libya made repeated requests for increased security in Benghazi. The mission in Libya, however, was denied these resources by officials in Washington.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs ... ts-attacks
Anyone else think that the Obama Administration is trying to stage a massive cover-up and the mainstream media is complicit in all of this. Seriously how would the media be reacting if this happened under Bush.
I wouldn't trust Issa as far as I could throw him. Don't really know the other guy.
And I think Inventor made some very good rebuttals to your post.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Problem with that statement Kraichgauer is that there is corroborating evidence that would suggest Issa is telling the truth and you're putting your trust in the wrong people.
1. Journal CNN found
2. Fact that there were several attacks on the consulate
3. someone had recently tried to assassinate the British Ambassador...
That's just for starters.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
I discussed this with the other side in Honduras. In this case the Right Wing Army, who wanted to know what I was up to. Not much, mostly drinking beer, and I heard some stories.
Land owners who tried to remain non political, who grew 900 acres of corn which was non profit, as American corn sells for less than production costs, and rice, making our allies dependant on us, and exporting their food money.
His reward for supporting his country, keep the money home, creating local jobs, was a bullet in the back from 600 yards. I got the story from his son, who was still growing corn. The head of the local Military joined me for breakfast, and confirmed it the next day, and he told me of moderate officers who got a bomb in their car, paid for by an American, with a briefcase of cash. The deal was, take the cash, bomb, and do it, or you do not leave here alive. Take the cash and don't do it, your whole family dies. And he had pictures.
This was on the southern border of Honduras, during the Contra wars.
Later, with his troops, which he called my sons, I saw young men getting fed, educated, made strong, and raised as good citizens. Hunger and poverty are common, the boot camp mostly about being fed, kept clean, health care, dental, things poor boys had never had. The first year was spent teaching them to read, get strong, and it showed.
The second year was teaching them a trade. After their two years of service, they were much better men. It was all job training for government work.
Rural kids did not get much, food, health care school, there were no jobs. The Army was the only way to raise and train enough to run the country, their country.
They did not want to be like Guatamala, where School of the Americas trained Death Squads who killed the Mayans for their land. They did not want a Banana Republic like Samosa, El Salvador, and expressed the goal of the Army of Honduras as Revolution, for in 160 years they had 161 governments, and one army. They policed the police, and the government, and would still be in uniform long after others were out of elected office.
They were only supported by The People, staffed by The People, who they fed, trained, armed, protected. They were Tribal Warriors.
I had studied Latin American Studies, and more, knew the history, tribes, art styles, cultures, and respected the past. I traveled in places that did not speak Spanish. Some spoke Aztec, I know a few words, they were Pupil, The Children, living just north of the Sacred Tobacco Fields.
I was following old trade routes. When I stopped in Paradiseo, the army knew everywhere I had been, who I spoke to, and clearly told me that some Americans were a danger, told me why, and asked what I was up to, for they could not figure me out.
I told them of my studies, wanting to see the reality behind books, and I was looking for Zero. The empty conch of Mayan math, which first shows up in the world with Numidian sea going traders, who also brought Tobacco, Jade, and Cocain back to Europe.
Zero is not in the Indian numbers brought by Arab traders, it starts in Bougie, Algeria, which was Nimidia. The only source predating that is Mayan. I was welcomed, helped, and got access to government and museum records. I know my art, and I was dealing with Mayans, Toltecs, Pupil, and when I returned, it was with every National Geographic of their art, going back fifty years and more, pictures of things they had never seen.
I had made friends in high places, the educated, land owners, the army, but I brought the National Geographics to the market in Yuscaran, a town of artists, wood carvers, fine crafts in the old style, between Paradiso and Tegucigalpa.
They still had the same art style, sense of color, but had never seen the work of their ancestors.
Artists are a strange lot everywhere, Honduras kept this place as a National Park where artists ran wild, and I donated the books to everybody.
There is an everybody, I lived in it where word of what I did traveled hundreds of miles. There is a unity of culture we have lost. Everyone I spoke with was everyone. People gathered and spoke several languages, they agreed on how to use the books. Painters knew from looking what pigments were used, some colors got a lot of attention. That shade carried messages from their ancestors to their DNA.
Freeing them from being hosts, I wandered the market, went and ate, back to my hotel and slept, and the next day it was like I had always lived there. I had become accepted in everyone.
I had delivered a message. I am not an artist, but I saw something, and delivered it 1500 miles away. I did not own it, it was bought for them, it was a gift. It was a very important suitcase filled with $30 of used magazines.
To them it was a gift from their ancestors, brought to them by their Spirits, who made me the messenger who could not read the message, which they all could from the pictures.
I stayed a few days, walked around town, a town of friends, seeing the condition of all for the Spirit that guided me, and continued the Messenger's Path.
During the Contra Wars, snipers killing good people, money planting bombs, harbors mined, I walked alone seeking Zero, and returned to bring a gift from their Spirits, their ancestors, that they were a great people, that had developed Corn, Zero, Tobacco, many other things, and they were not forgotten.
The Fifth Sun is ending, it will take it's troubles with it. The Sixth Sun we will still have what is in our hearts. Pick a path with heart, for you will walk it to the spirit world.
On my way home I stopped in San Pedro/Sula. San Pedro is Spanish, when dirt was invented they built Sula on it. A railroad runs between them. Do not cross the tracks they all say, never at night. Never never during their festivals. So a friend said, one night, we are having a festival come with me. It was the day after Christmas, when the Sun stands still in the southern sky, for five days.
Crossing the tracks there are no Spanish faces, no street lamps, the only light coming from open doors, many people in the streets, all who come up to my shoulder. Block after block we walked, a mile into Sula, and there in a small house I was fed Tamales wrapped in banana leaves.
Sharing food, being together, is one meaning of The Dead Days, another is killing those who might offend the Sun. Everyone must come to terms with their place in everybody. We must be worthy of the Sun returning.
Walking back after midnight, the street were still full. My friend asked if I liked it. I did, food, friends, and it was so peaceful. No street lights, no cars, no police. What do you see, he asked. Just people. What people? Indio.
He laughed, Yes he said, just a bunch of Indio.
The next day he took me to a bodaga where we drank beer and listened to Sinatra, who is very popular. The other people asked me about the night before, I reported having a good time. They laughed.
For them there is a very clear line between those who are everyone, and those who live only for themselves. I had passed some test. I had trusted my friend. I had walked in the dark among the people. I trusted the people.
Everyone exists everywhere. So do those with a private interest.
I would agree with,
"That which is not good for the beehive, is not good for the bees."
Our common interests must lead, and we have common interests with all.
Did you forget the bombings? What was approved as a UN No Fly Zone lead to unlimited bombings, of every town in Libya. Many were killed.
Avenging the dead is Family, Tribal, and this air war was not approved by the UN, it was the Americans, British, French, who bombed a compound with six guys and a pickup, who were the local defense forces.
The Russians have cited this as the reason they will not approve a no fly in Sryia.
It was the same people who brought in the Saudi Funded fighters, to lead the revolution, taking it away from the people.
The same Saudi Funded who took over northern Mali, and are chopping off hands and feet, whipping people for drinking beer, tearing down Sufi Shrines, defiling graves, and worse.
The UN only agreed to keep planes out, not to bomb every house that had a pickup in the driveway.
Tribal Libyans defending their area, men with guns in pickups, were bombed.
Where a plane went down locals who went to give aid were shot.
Friends keep you from being bombed and drop food and medical supplies.
What the Americans, British, French did was not covered by the UN.
Blood for blood is as old as the desert.
So the American CIA-Saudi ReligiousTerrorists were driven out, and no you cannot send in Marines, FBI, and recover your foothold.
You can stay within the walls of your Embassy in Tripoli, act like Diplomats, and be safe.
The Anglo-American-Saudi Oil Company, and their terrorist army, is not welcome.
Children will grow up knowing their father was killed by a British jet, and not consider themselves a man till they take revenge in blood.
The desert never forgets.
The sins of the fathers are visited on the second and third generation.
Two men died at the CIA post, one was taken to a hospital, where the medical reports say he was involved in anal intercourse.
As ye sow so shall ye reap.
The number of attacks prior to the 9/11 attack has now gone up to 13, including the attempted assassination of the British Ambassador with an RPG.
It's ridiculous because it's a bunch of tribal group-think. Your constant blatant hypocrisy proves it. Just admit that you would only ever bash a Democratic administration. Obama's first crime is not being in your particular tribe. You look for scandals to justify the fact that you already have a knee-jerk gut-level loathing for the guy because he's not a Republican. According to you Democrats can do no right and Republicans can do no wrong. You just accept that a-priori and then go search your right-wing sources for scandals so you can justify your presupposition that Obama is "evil". People like you are disgrace to thinking conservatives. And before you get on me and whine that I just called you "stupid", note that I have not. I don't think you're "stupid". I think you're blindly biased and partisan rhetoric is like a game to you because it's exhilarating to get riled up on it.
Prof_Pretorius
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Age: 68
Gender: Male
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Location: Hiding in the attic of the Arkham Library
I don't see this as a political party argument, but as a larger problem. Namely the US government chose to put out lies instead of telling anything close to the truth. Now they seem to be hoping this all gets swept away with the networks "race to the end" of the election non-stop news coverage.
_________________
I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow. I feel my fate in what I cannot fear. I learn by going where I have to go. ~Theodore Roethke
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