Why is the Left Defending Obama?

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If we continue on the same path there will be a destabilization putting it mildly anyways... If things are going to deteriorate anyways, I would rather it be before Iran gets nuclear weapons, instead of potentially seeing a 2nd Holocaust only this time Nuclear weapons are used...

I haven't got a lot of time for the Iranian theocracy but at the same time I do not want to see a scenario where Israel forcefully removes the Islamic revolutionary state only to further the interests of the Western-Israeli neo-liberal mandate throughout the region, therefore I am not entirely opposed to them having nuclear weapons. Israel has got away for too long with being the sole nuclear power in the region; they think they can throw their weight around in the Gaza strip and southern Lebanon with impunity. It is time there was an arab nuclear state keeping a check on them.

The biggest mistake Gadaffi made was not pursuing nuclear weapons - he extended the olive branch to the west by demilitarising and look what happened to him. I hope Iran does not make the same mistake.

Difference between Israel having nukes and Iran having nukes, is Israel has not shown any intent of wanting to use said nukes on its neighbors. The Iranian Theocracy has made it quite clear the want to turn Israel into a crater; which is precisely why Iran should not be allowed to get a Nuke.

Ahmoudinejhad isn't that stupid; he knows if he nuked Israel, Iran would become a smouldering crater from the joint US-Israel counterstrike.

On the other hand, while Israel is the sole nuclear power it gives them a precedence to start a conventional attack on Iran. That has the potential to provoke Russia (Iran's ally) to intervene and draw the entire region into a wider and more bloody war.

I think Iran would like nukes for a similar reason to north korea; to deter its immediate enemies and to use as a bargaining chip at international peace meetings. That aside from the fact that Ahmoudinejhad has denied actively pursuing nuclear weapons, its scaremongering by the Israeli press and military as a justification for a first conventional strike.

Fixed that for you.

Right. So how does that make the USA or Israel any less culpible of said blackmail?

TL;DR;DC

Last edited by AspieRogue on 04 Nov 2012, 5:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

How likely are the Americans or Israelis to use a nuke as anything other than retaliation or a last option? How likely are the Iranians and North Koreans to use a nuke as anything but a retaliation or a last option?

I know you're big on that egalitarian trip, but everything isn't apples and apples. Sometimes its apples and crazy motherf***ers with little to lose and a nuclear weapon.

Thats all speculative and frankly, besides the issue.

Its not necessarilly the likliehood of 'how likely' they are to use it, but the fact that they use it as a precedence to back up their unilateralist policy across the world.

"You don't like our foreign policy? Tell it to our massive army and airforce. You don't like carpet bombings and conventional invasion? Tell it to our large stockpile of nuclear weapons".

Took you 3 edits to get that right, huh?

Argumentum ad baculum is always out in force these days.

The fact of the matter is that both the U.S and Israel have had nukes for over 40 years if not more, yet the U.S has not used one since WW2 and the Israelis have never used theirs. The only groupings to state openly that their intent to get one and use it are muslim fanatics, a breed that have quite a lot of power in Iran. We can add to that a somewhat unstable political situation (the same can be said about North Korea) and aggression against their own people.

They've never had to use their nukes, precisely because they have larger conventional armies than their opponents.

The USA/Israel do not want North Korea or Iran to have nuclear weapons not because they are more likely to use it, but it would even the odds.

If the Iranian army could be embodied by a singular solider, he would have an AK47. If the USA/Israeli military could be embodied as a singular soldier, he would have a heavy machine gun in his 'aim' hand and a rocket launcher in his 'latent' hand.