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simon_says
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08 Nov 2012, 1:04 pm

I know two Republican women who voted Obama this time (only). One over planned parenthood, one over gay rights.

The Republicans just threw their votes away over bs.



androbot2084
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08 Nov 2012, 1:10 pm

Its not a wasted vote because you can always appeal to the electoral college



ruveyn
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08 Nov 2012, 1:50 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Its not a wasted vote because you can always appeal to the electoral college


Which will avail nought.

ruveyn



Vulture
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08 Nov 2012, 1:58 pm

If they're remotely interested in the long term retention of their political influence they should seriously reconsider sticking to being the party of white people and citizen's rights obstructionism.



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08 Nov 2012, 2:00 pm

It's not whether you win but its the principle that counts. The principle is setting yourself free from mob rule.



ruveyn
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08 Nov 2012, 2:01 pm

Vulture wrote:
If they're remotely interested in the long term retention of their political influence they should seriously reconsider sticking to being the party of white people and citizen's rights obstructionism.


The Republicans now in charge think that it is 80 years ago.

It started when Hoover lost to FDR.

ruveyn



MarketAndChurch
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08 Nov 2012, 2:22 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I think the Obama campaign was extremely effective driving issues like abortion, gay marriage, contraceptives, rape, etc to the forefront of the race with the dumb comments/positions of other Republicans. Those comments didn't really reflect Romney's beliefs but he did trend socially conservative. Not only did this hurt Romney, it was disastrous down ticket and was directly responsible for losing multiple seats in the senate that they should of won.

I don't think pro-life positions need be abandoned, I still think it can be an winning issue if one isn't too extreme or make stupid comments. There is no way to defend rape and attacking contraceptives and sex education is a generational step backward on the issue while also being counter-productive to the goal of less abortion.


Our position on abortion is fine... a sizable portion of the Democrats are also pro-life.

No we need to go to war with the evangelical and catholic wing of the party and let them know to closet their moronic theological positions on God's intent if they want to run as a GOP. That or we go to war with the position itself, it is an absolutely stupid position to hold.

You make God look stupid, you make the GOP look stupid, and those of us who don't believe that "God gives you rape as a circumstance to test your faith because in the end, he's in control of everything" are stuck defending something we don't believe in, and something that is frankly, indefensible. Several groups within the GOP tent costed Romney this election.


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MarketAndChurch
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08 Nov 2012, 2:45 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Your country is turning the corner on social issues.

Approval of ballot measures regarding same sex measures and the defeat of a constitutional amendment to prohibit same-sex marriage in Minnesota are, I suggest, evidence that the momentum has moved away from social conservatives. Republicans must sever the control that social conservatives have over the party platform, and move to the center on social policy issues.

The United States is a pluralist country in which diversity is a fact of daily life for the vast majority of the population. Not only must the Republicans move to the center on social policy, so too their economic policy must move to a place that resonates with that diversity.


But Minnesota's portion of the world is like the northwest. It is a racially pure, progressive part of the country. It does not have the numbers that the south has in terms of religiosity or conservative enclaves. That they have been able to go this long without same-sex marriage is quite interesting.

What is the center on economic policy? The Democrats don't want to commit to any serious cuts in the public sector other then the Military, is that a centrist position? My position is that we should raise taxes on everyone, twice as much on the top 1%, but should also pair that with some heavy cuts to government and moderate cuts to entitlements. That is the center. The Democrats and the Republicans don't want to make any meaningful tradeoffs, but we need to acknowledge that neither side resides in the center.


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MarketAndChurch
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08 Nov 2012, 3:14 pm

RCP is guesstimating the increase in minorities both as a % of the voting electorate was due to a decrease of whites show up at the polls, a large portion of which are the same ones who didn't show up at the polls for McCain but did so for Bush in 04. They are assuming - for now until all polls are clear - that 6 million whites did not vote in this election.


That is interesting that each passing year more and more people are not participating in democracy, of 310,000,000 people, I would expect more then 116,000,000 people to vote.


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08 Nov 2012, 3:49 pm

The GOP would do well to continue to pitch fiscal responsibility, but come to the center on social issues.

Here's three things that would help them out right away.

1. Work visas for undocumented immigrants. Let people hire them, let them come over and work and go back if they want. Have them pay fair income tax like everyone else. They can come and go as they please as long as they hold a job and don't break the law. First step towards establishing residency and citizenship if that's what they want. Get them off the dole and get them working. In the end it works for everyone. No one has an issue with immigration, it's the illegal part that makes people mad. Give these people a foot in the door and ease the transfer from immigrant to citizen, see how fast that coveted Latino vote switches sides.

2. Legalize marijuana and scale back the "War on Drugs". It's not working, drug trafficking is at an all time high and is now resulting in increased murder and violence in bordertowns on both sides of the fence. Prohibition did not work in the '20s and it's not working now. Legalization would save taxpayers billions in money on bungled police raids, prosecuting petty crimes like possession and free up space in our prisons that should be for violent and dangerous offenders. Subject pot to all the same laws as alcohol and tobacco and tax it if you must. Removing drug traffic means less gang-related violence in our cities also.

3. Abandon anti-gay stance. I know a lot of gays and many of them are quite enterprising people who would fit well better with a party that supports capitalism than a party that supports a welfare state. The overtly religious overtones of the "religious right" are very off-putting to many people when it comes to the GOP. While it's good to have moral values of right and wrong, there is nothing good that comes out of discrimination. Singling out certain groups for removal, especially given the recent Catholic scandals, does not win hearts and minds in this day and age. The idea that all gays are perverts is outdated and flat out wrong. By accepting LGBT people into the fold rather than demonizing them, the Republicans would gain their support as voters and would find an ear amongst the vast majority of young voters who support them.



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08 Nov 2012, 4:16 pm

The GOP should learn to hablo en Espanol.

Let the Dems have the black vote, but balance that by seizing the Hispanic vote.



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08 Nov 2012, 7:04 pm

Angry white male christian evangelicals is not a big enough demographic to win an election.



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09 Nov 2012, 4:09 am

Cash__ wrote:
Angry white male christian evangelicals is not a big enough demographic to win an election.


When did Democrats become such f*****g racists?



MarketAndChurch
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09 Nov 2012, 4:16 am

Cash__ wrote:
Angry white male christian evangelicals is not a big enough demographic to win an election.


they are a quarter of the population. There's more of them then non-evangelical voting blacks or hispanics combined. They delivered bush to victory, and have been uninspired by the last two elections, unfortunately.


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MarketAndChurch
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09 Nov 2012, 4:24 am

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
The GOP would do well to continue to pitch fiscal responsibility, but come to the center on social issues.

Here's three things that would help them out right away.

1. Work visas for undocumented immigrants. Let people hire them, let them come over and work and go back if they want. Have them pay fair income tax like everyone else. They can come and go as they please as long as they hold a job and don't break the law. First step towards establishing residency and citizenship if that's what they want. Get them off the dole and get them working. In the end it works for everyone. No one has an issue with immigration, it's the illegal part that makes people mad. Give these people a foot in the door and ease the transfer from immigrant to citizen, see how fast that coveted Latino vote switches sides.

2. Legalize marijuana and scale back the "War on Drugs". It's not working, drug trafficking is at an all time high and is now resulting in increased murder and violence in bordertowns on both sides of the fence. Prohibition did not work in the '20s and it's not working now. Legalization would save taxpayers billions in money on bungled police raids, prosecuting petty crimes like possession and free up space in our prisons that should be for violent and dangerous offenders. Subject pot to all the same laws as alcohol and tobacco and tax it if you must. Removing drug traffic means less gang-related violence in our cities also.

3. Abandon anti-gay stance. I know a lot of gays and many of them are quite enterprising people who would fit well better with a party that supports capitalism than a party that supports a welfare state. The overtly religious overtones of the "religious right" are very off-putting to many people when it comes to the GOP. While it's good to have moral values of right and wrong, there is nothing good that comes out of discrimination. Singling out certain groups for removal, especially given the recent Catholic scandals, does not win hearts and minds in this day and age. The idea that all gays are perverts is outdated and flat out wrong. By accepting LGBT people into the fold rather than demonizing them, the Republicans would gain their support as voters and would find an ear amongst the vast majority of young voters who support them.


1.) Absolutely
2.) Sort of... I'm sick of the Government saying I can Gamble or drink alcohol so long as they can get revenues from it.
3.) I disagree. Unfortunately, you can love a Gay all you want, but to deny them marriage makes you into a bigoted douchy hater. Which is unfortunate. But we must stand our ground on this one, and fight the Christians into being more tolerant because they are cause of most of the hates towards gays. It isn't singling out a "certain" group, because anyone, regardless of their desired living arrangement, cannot marry unless they match the male-female ideal. We have limitations on age, we have limitations on numbers of persons who can marry, we have limitations on familial connections. The male-female bias is rigid in that sense and we should maintain it. Allow gays every benefit in the book, love them the same, and give them another marriage-like institution, just for them.


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DiscardedWhisper
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09 Nov 2012, 5:56 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
3.) I disagree. Unfortunately, you can love a Gay all you want, but to deny them marriage makes you into a bigoted douchy hater. Which is unfortunate. But we must stand our ground on this one, and fight the Christians into being more tolerant because they are cause of most of the hates towards gays. It isn't singling out a "certain" group, because anyone, regardless of their desired living arrangement, cannot marry unless they match the male-female ideal. We have limitations on age, we have limitations on numbers of persons who can marry, we have limitations on familial connections. The male-female bias is rigid in that sense and we should maintain it. Allow gays every benefit in the book, love them the same, and give them another marriage-like institution, just for them.


I honestly don't see how gay marriage hurts anyone. We're not talking about NAMBLA here. There's an overtone that gays would be bad parents, but there's probably a proportionate number of straight people who are bad parents. Gays want to have nice jobs and run businesses just like anyone else, I think the GOP would find surprising allies in the gay community if it altered it's stance on them.

The GOP needs to make fiscal responsibility the centerpiece of it's platform and phase out it's archaic stance on social issues.