Shall we leave anorexic women to starve to death?

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You are assuming that one is dealing with a sane reasonable person. Suppose that is not the case.

ruveyn

Lots of reasons. Fear of getting fat, obsession with diet and eating healthy so they cut out certain foods, forgetting to eat due to obsessions and being absorbed into things it does not occur for someone to stop and eat, no appetite, they want control so they use food because it's what they can control.

It's not always about losing weight. There are two different kinds of anorexia; anorexia and anorexia nervosa (sp).

Well that's the thing. I know anorexic people, but none of them are irrational. Do these people qualify as anorexic? They do eat.. not very much, but they catch up between shows, snacking throughout the day, and are not irrational about anything. They'll pull in 10 grand a show if their new, veterans pull in between 50-100k, they may do a few shows a day, and when its fashion week, back to back, they may rake in as much as a few million dollars and a lot of very expensive clothing.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBoNgED1RZE&hd=1[/youtube]

What compels the teenager or young adult who isn't getting paid a few million dollars to stay thin, to starve themselves into a very unattractive look? Super models at least limit how thin they become, because a little meat on the face suggests youth. But when it comes to anorexic teen or young adult who are bone thin, Men don't find it attractive. This must therefore be fully propelled by social pressure from other women and women media they consume. But since Men are who they are attracted to, you'd think they'd go for a more fit look, and even gain a little weight in some areas. Are other women the cause of anorexia?

So it's not only about looks or fear of their weight? I've never heard of anorexia nervosa, I'll have to check that out.

For someone promulgating himself as a sceptic, you too believe in fairy tales like free will. What is so idiotic of people who believe in free will is they conclude falsely that because free will exists, it cannot be compromised........Nothing could be further from the truth. It is so patently obvious that there are many things that can impair a persons judgement to the point where they no longer have free will. And in this case I'm not talking about drugs, I'm talking about a mental illness. Anorexia is a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder which is extremely dangerous and if it progresses far enough can cause permanent organ damage resulting in premature death even before the person dies from starvation. OCD is a perfect example of the failure of this "will power" concept: The brain becomes *locked up* just like a computer stuck in a hang. Anorexia is caused by positive feedback loops in the brain and those who suffer from it usually have problems with anxiety.

Anorexia is considered to be a mental illness. Most countries have mental health legislation, to protect people suffering from mental illnesses. I don't see a problem with the legislation being used to save the life of someone who would otherwise die, if left untreated. Do all people with anorexia want to die? Is it a long drawn out form of suicide? Although some people with eating disorders do have suicidal thoughts, it's not normally the ultimate goal of anorexia. (NB People with suicidal thoughts are treated under force, when deemed necessary, so the person wanting to die is not a reason for not treating them anyway.)

Yes and we should let people kill themselves too.

It's fine to try to help them and give them counseling but at some point they'll either get better or get over it or just be determined that this is what they want to do and no one will stop them.

Just recently on this forum I remember someone posting a link about anorexic people being kicked out of treatment for being "noncompliant". That made no sense to me but isn't doing that letting them starve to death? By definition wouldn't any anorexic be pretty much "noncompliant" and if it was so easy for them to just eat they wouldn't have an eating disorder or need treatment?

As long as they present to danger to the public in doing to. For people who want to jump off from a high place we should provide jumping areas which are safe to the general public. We don't want falling bodies to land on innocent people.

ruveyn

What about anorexic men?

I personally believe that if someone wants to remove themselves from existence, why not permit them to do so. There are plenty of humans on earth, so no threat to the species is presented when some humans want to die.

The original question was not really about anorexia. It was a veiled reference to abortion. The flaw in the OP's reasoning is that anorexia is an actual illness, while pregnancy is just a condition. In fact, pregnancy is usually a sign of a bodily system working properly, whereas anorexia is a result of a bodily system being disordered in some way.

I don't think Anorexia Nervosa can be equated to abortion ... but the question the OP asks... yes, chronic eating disorders in adults are not well understood, and there is no known cure.

So who pays for the incredibly expensive treatment? I've been in and out of treatment since I wad a child and it cost my family and myself a fortune. I spent two years working to pay my stepfather back for just three months of completely ineffective treatment.

Who is going to pay to treat patients with Anorexia Nervosa? It's not a mental illness that you choose to have. What about all of the men and women who are afflicted with eating disorders and would voluntarily go into treatment but are unable to afford it?

Although my entire life would've been different if all it took was a brief medical procedure to remove the eating issues.


Anyway, yes, let adults refuse treatment, if they're bad off enough that they're going to die, forcing treatment on them isn't likely to save them.

My sister had anorexia and to let her take control about herself, was part of the therapy in which we had been involved as family. Before we were fighting against her, until then we could support her. And there is nothing you can do, she is the only one really able to say "Stop." So as example my mother first tried to go against it by buying all sort of stuff, which she knew my sister loved to eat or by cooking her most desired meals. It was completely dumb, because when she lost control over herself she ate it, after the binge attack, she regreted everything and hated herself more than before for being weak and it got puked out afterwards anyway, damaging her throat and teeth... So the only effect in the end, was that my sister hated herself even more, leading to more hate against her own body, leading to more puking. In comparison, letting her eat her salad with an apple and one yoghurt a day, which she allowed herself, and which she did not puke up again, was the better part because it also took out the fighting at the topic eating. To the stress with eating she did herself to her, came the stress with eating we did do her. You are not seeing happy toward a meal, when you know that there will be your mom and dad telling you to this and that every 30 seconds and so on... So you start hating food and meals even more. Instead we started accepting her wish to be slim to a tolerance point. Like "Ok, so you want to be on diet. Instead of fighting and "trapping" you, making you puke and so on... whats ok for you? Are oranges ok? Ok, then will buy oranges if you really eat them. " and so on...

In the mean time the therapeut was working with her, to make her see, that she herself did see her body wrong. So he gave her as example shadow pictures of women (So the woman were blackened, you could only see the silhouette) and let her say , which one of these would be slim in her opinion, which one would be fat and so on... So when she sorted that pictures she gathered the pictures of the silhouettes with the women, that were so slim like she wanted herself to be. When the doctor made a silhouette picture of herself, she could see that she was way beyond the pictures of the models from whom she said, she wanted to be as slim as them. So after that and other thigns the therapeut worked on, she realized, that there was something in the way she was looking upon herself was wrong. She was able to see that a women with 110 pound was really slim to the limit, but herself with 94,60 pound she saw fat in the mirror. But she understood that this cant be, when you have the same size. And that she really, really was slim, which she cant see herself.

There had been a lots of other things, but nowadays she accepts her weight in a technical way. So its hard for her to see, because she easily focus on her failures, but she accepts by logic with the help of measuring and so, that she is really ok. She is still fixed on weight, making you mad when telling you by eyes that your weight gained from 120 pound to horrible ^^ 125 pound but she accepts to measure her weight not by eyes.

Its the same with drug addicts: You can talk, you can pray, you can do whatever you want. It wont help anything until the addicted himself says "No. I do not want that any longer." Not by social or financial pressure or anything, but because he really means it. So its really ok to try to help them. But when fighting against their will by force you loose.

Exactly the reaction I expected.

Isn't it funny how the more people try to back up their pro-choice stance the more selfish their points begin to become...



Yes, which works counter to the points here. The ideology of the pro-lifers here is that pregnancy, as you say a sign of a bodily system working properly, should be allowed to be be terminated whereas anorexia; a result of a bodily system being disordered in some way, should be left to fail under the bearers freewill.

The whole pro-choice movement is backed by people who want woman to "have the right to choose what happens to their own body" and many even agree that abortion is "the lesser of two evils", so if denying a woman's right to choose is such an evil then surely is must be worse than leaving anorexic women to die, taking drugs whilst pregnant, or helping people to kill themselves as ruveyn suggested. Indeed from the "women's right to chose" argument there is only the rape argument (which only accounts for 1% of abortions and doesn't back the remaining 99%) and ye olde "if someone if brought up in a unloving family they will live a bad life" assumption which likewise only holds true for some of the cases. So if the only argument they can hold for a complete abortion legalisation directly contradicts with most of their own principles they really haven't got much to go by.

Alas I don't want this topic to turn into yet another abortion centered argument, just something for those feminists to think about before they start mouthing off about how every woman should have the right to do what she wants with her body.

Last edited by robo37 on 15 Nov 2012, 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hhmmmmm...I don't see how abortion is related to anorexia. I wasn't aware prolifers had a political stake in anorexia as well. Perhaps these issues are related in other countries......?

I was anorexic for several yrs and felt horrible anxiety regarding food. The situations dealing with people and food practically brought on panic attacks. I am so glad those days are over, but recovery took forever. So called experts say its impossible, but I cured myself. But then I also never let my not-eating habits get out of control because I couldn't fathom the thought of being locked up. Food may have brought on an incredible amount of anxiety but letting my eating disorder take over absolutely terrified me. A friend of mine said she starved until she didn't hav the strength to get out of bed and then wanted to be taken care of. Idk. I wonder about aspergers with eating disorders compared to "typicals"......

Selfish is sane.

ruveyn

Huh, with that attitude, you must really be baffled on why Charles Manson was ever arrested, or why England ever tried to stop the Nazis.

How exactly is selfishness a measure of sanity?