Question for Zionists
GGPViper wrote:
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
So somehow, two people discredit the whole organization's efforts? Let me guess - Any organization that tries to bring relief to Palestine, is somehow tied to Hamas right? I think it's a ridiculous claim and Rachel Corrie had nothing but good intentions in her heart.
Straw Man.
You asked for sources. I provided sources.
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:

That figure contains several errors. One, it wasn't "Palestine" in 1947, it was the "British Mandate for Palestine" (and prior to that, it wasn't Palestine either, but a part of the Ottoman empire).
And two, Palestine does not "exist" as a seperate state (at least not from the perspective of the UN). If Palestine achieves UN recognition, then it is a different matter.
Do you understand my perspective on the issue? The native people are being displaced in a similar fashion as the Native Americans were within America. If your home was bulldozed by somebody who occupied your surrounding areas, in which your ancestors lived for hundreds to thousands of years, what would you do and how would you react ?
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
So somehow, two people discredit the whole organization's efforts? Let me guess - Any organization that tries to bring relief to Palestine, is somehow tied to Hamas right? I think it's a ridiculous claim and Rachel Corrie had nothing but good intentions in her heart.
Straw Man.
You asked for sources. I provided sources.
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:

That figure contains several errors. One, it wasn't "Palestine" in 1947, it was the "British Mandate for Palestine" (and prior to that, it wasn't Palestine either, but a part of the Ottoman empire).
And two, Palestine does not "exist" as a seperate state (at least not from the perspective of the UN). If Palestine achieves UN recognition, then it is a different matter.
Do you understand my perspective on the issue? The native people are being displaced in a similar fashion as the Native Americans were within America. If your home was bulldozed by somebody who occupied your surrounding areas, in which your ancestors lived for hundreds to thousands of years, what would you do and how would you react ?
The jews were actually persecuted by the Romans, the Brits and then the Ottomans. The jews actually take the role of the native Americans here.
Palestine has never existed. The are was occupied by the Ottoman empire for a long time, though. If we were to throw the jews out of their homes in favour of the muslims, we might as well give the Africa back to Netherlands, France and Great Britain, large parts of Asia back to Russia and the rest of Asia back to China and Mongolia.
Quote:
The jews were actually persecuted by the Romans, the Brits and then the Ottomans. The jews actually take the role of the native Americans here.
Palestine has never existed. The are was occupied by the Ottoman empire for a long time, though.
Palestine has never existed. The are was occupied by the Ottoman empire for a long time, though.
Native Americans never controlled the media, central banking systems, and had as much power currently that the Jews do. lol @ them taking the role of Native Americans.
Mikkel wrote:
If we have to go on with who started it, then either God or evolution stated it, the rest is history. The problem is how to get out of it without answer like "Turn it into glass".
I agree - There will probably always be conflict in that region unfortunately, religion does that.
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
Quote:
The jews were actually persecuted by the Romans, the Brits and then the Ottomans. The jews actually take the role of the native Americans here.
Palestine has never existed. The are was occupied by the Ottoman empire for a long time, though.
Palestine has never existed. The are was occupied by the Ottoman empire for a long time, though.
Native Americans never controlled the media, central banking systems, and had as much power currently that the Jews do. lol @ them taking the role of Native Americans.
Yes, Jewish world dominance is scary.
Your founding fathers probably did a lot to prevent the native Americans from ever controlling anything.
I don't think either side is free of blame, but I'm positive that relocating Israel to a U.S. territory would fix the problem. We could easily double their territory by giving them part of alaska, or just pick the state that wants to secede and let them secede to Israel. If we paid to ship all of their goods ourselves, I doubt we'd exceed what we already give them for their defense.
MDD123 wrote:
I don't think either side is free of blame, but I'm positive that relocating Israel to a U.S. territory would fix the problem. We could easily double their territory by giving them part of alaska, or just pick the state that wants to secede and let them secede to Israel. If we paid to ship all of their goods ourselves, I doubt we'd exceed what we already give them for their defense.
And what if the citizens of Israel don't want to leave?
MDD123 wrote:
I don't think either side is free of blame, but I'm positive that relocating Israel to a U.S. territory would fix the problem. We could easily double their territory by giving them part of alaska, or just pick the state that wants to secede and let them secede to Israel. If we paid to ship all of their goods ourselves, I doubt we'd exceed what we already give them for their defense.
The historical Israel was located where Israel is now (allthough it was significantly larger)—not in the US (regardless of what Josef Smith thinks).
GGPViper wrote:
If Palestine achieves UN recognition, then it is a different matter.
And all this predicates on the Palestinian terrorists ceasing their murder campaign against Israel and stopping the hatred spewed out on Palestinian TV day after day after day. It's really the entire Arab world (and the Islamic attitude of domination and conquest) that's at fault in this conflict in attitude and mindset - not just "Palestine". If you support human rights, don't look to Arab countries or the poor Palestinians because they don't know the meaning of the word. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that even vaguely gets the notion of rights and freedoms and is a truly liberal democracy in that part of the world.
Here's a groundbreaking article by a former member of the Saudi Army who courageously speaks up for truth and against the insane, murderous policies of governments across the Arab world (http://www.arabnews.com/arab-spring-and-israeli-enemy).
Kurgan wrote:
Israel is a flawed democracy rather than a full democracy (the press freedom there is somewhat poorer than that of Europe, Canada or the US), but the Arabs are probably halting the development a bit.
Yet the Arabs living in Israel have full and equal rights as Israeli citizens. They can vote and elect Arab members of parliament that call for the destruction of Israel.
Would that kind of nonsense be tolerated in most Arab countries? I think not.
GGPViper wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
I don't think either side is free of blame, but I'm positive that relocating Israel to a U.S. territory would fix the problem. We could easily double their territory by giving them part of alaska, or just pick the state that wants to secede and let them secede to Israel. If we paid to ship all of their goods ourselves, I doubt we'd exceed what we already give them for their defense.
And what if the citizens of Israel don't want to leave?
What if the U.S. gets tired of sending Israel foreign aid?
Kurgan wrote:
The historical Israel was located where Israel is now (allthough it was significantly larger)—not in the US (regardless of what Josef Smith thinks).
We could overlook historical accuracy in favor of practicality. We're the only country that gives Israel continual support and has land to spare. Whether or not the land rightfully belongs to Israel, it is beyond troublesome and costly to maintain their presence there.
Tequila wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Israel is a flawed democracy rather than a full democracy (the press freedom there is somewhat poorer than that of Europe, Canada or the US), but the Arabs are probably halting the development a bit.
Yet the Arabs living in Israel have full and equal rights as Israeli citizens. They can vote and elect Arab members of parliament that call for the destruction of Israel.
Would that kind of nonsense be tolerated in most Arab countries? I think not.
lol
1. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in Israel? A Jew from any country in the world is guaranteed citizenship in Israel, while the Palestinians who have been there for centuries are oppressed and persecuted.
2. Did you know that instead of sewing an insignia on clothing to distinguish race (like the Germans did to the Jews before WW2), Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?
3. Did you know that East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights are all considered by the entire world community, including the United States and the United Nations, to be occupied territory and NOT part of the State of Israel?
4. Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is set aside for about 400 Jewish settlers, while the remaining 15% is distributed among Hebron's 120, 000 Palestinians?
5. Did you know that the United States awards Israel $11 billion in aid each year from American tax dollars?
6. Did you know that US aid to Israel ($11 billion annually) exceeds the aid the US grants to the entire African continent? This aid is used both to buy American weaponry and to buy arms made in Israel.
7. Did you know that Israel is awaiting an additional $4 billion worth of American military hardware, including new F-16s and Apache and Blackhawk helicopters. As Israel's main ally and supporter internationally, the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state's "qualitative edge" in weapons over its neighbors.
8. Did you know that the U.S. administration has notified Congress on numerous occasions that Israel has violated the rules on how US-supplied weapons are used? (In 1978, 1979 and 1982 during fighting in Lebanon, and once after Israel's bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.)
9. Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?
10. Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war have been summarily executed by the Israeli forces?
11. Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it?
12. Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?
13. Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character?
14. Did you know that Israel's ex Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be "personally and directly responsible" for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre in Lebanon where more than a thousand innocent Palestinian men, women, and children were axed to death or lined up and shot in cold blood?
15. Did you know that on May 20, 1990, a group of unarmed Palestinian laborers were lined up and murdered by an Israeli solider as they sat waiting for transportation back to Gaza? The terrified laborers who gathered in an area of southern Israel known as Rishon Lezion (known to Palestinians by its Arabic name Oyon Qara) handed their ID cards to the Israeli soldier. The soldiers ordered the distressed laborers to kneel down and face the ground and unexpectedly showered them with a barrage of bullets, killing seven and wounding many others. Needless to say, the soldier was not charged with any crime.
16. Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run "Jews Only" job ads?
17. Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Israel to the American public?
18. Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party--Molodet--which advocates ethnic cleansing by openly calling for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the occupied territories?
19. Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the forced expulsion of Arabs from all Palestininan territory in 1948?
20. Did you know that the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel's third largest political party) openly advocates a 'Final Solution' to annihilate the Palestinians? Speaking at the widely broadcast sermon marking the last Passover, he declared of the Palestinians: "The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
I found this on the web.. kind of funny how you said Arabs have full and equal rights.
MDD123 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
I don't think either side is free of blame, but I'm positive that relocating Israel to a U.S. territory would fix the problem. We could easily double their territory by giving them part of alaska, or just pick the state that wants to secede and let them secede to Israel. If we paid to ship all of their goods ourselves, I doubt we'd exceed what we already give them for their defense.
And what if the citizens of Israel don't want to leave?
What if the U.S. gets tired of sending Israel foreign aid?
Then the GDP of Israel would drop by 1.2 percent, and the US federal expenditures would drop by 0.08 percent.
Now, I answered your question. Care to answer mine?
Raymond_Fawkes wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Israel is a flawed democracy rather than a full democracy (the press freedom there is somewhat poorer than that of Europe, Canada or the US), but the Arabs are probably halting the development a bit.
Yet the Arabs living in Israel have full and equal rights as Israeli citizens. They can vote and elect Arab members of parliament that call for the destruction of Israel.
Would that kind of nonsense be tolerated in most Arab countries? I think not.
lol
1. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in Israel? A Jew from any country in the world is guaranteed citizenship in Israel, while the Palestinians who have been there for centuries are oppressed and persecuted.
2. Did you know that instead of sewing an insignia on clothing to distinguish race (like the Germans did to the Jews before WW2), Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?
3. Did you know that East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights are all considered by the entire world community, including the United States and the United Nations, to be occupied territory and NOT part of the State of Israel?
4. Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is set aside for about 400 Jewish settlers, while the remaining 15% is distributed among Hebron's 120, 000 Palestinians?
5. Did you know that the United States awards Israel $11 billion in aid each year from American tax dollars?
6. Did you know that US aid to Israel ($11 billion annually) exceeds the aid the US grants to the entire African continent? This aid is used both to buy American weaponry and to buy arms made in Israel.
7. Did you know that Israel is awaiting an additional $4 billion worth of American military hardware, including new F-16s and Apache and Blackhawk helicopters. As Israel's main ally and supporter internationally, the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state's "qualitative edge" in weapons over its neighbors.
8. Did you know that the U.S. administration has notified Congress on numerous occasions that Israel has violated the rules on how US-supplied weapons are used? (In 1978, 1979 and 1982 during fighting in Lebanon, and once after Israel's bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.)
9. Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?
10. Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war have been summarily executed by the Israeli forces?
11. Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it?
12. Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?
13. Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character?
14. Did you know that Israel's ex Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be "personally and directly responsible" for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre in Lebanon where more than a thousand innocent Palestinian men, women, and children were axed to death or lined up and shot in cold blood?
15. Did you know that on May 20, 1990, a group of unarmed Palestinian laborers were lined up and murdered by an Israeli solider as they sat waiting for transportation back to Gaza? The terrified laborers who gathered in an area of southern Israel known as Rishon Lezion (known to Palestinians by its Arabic name Oyon Qara) handed their ID cards to the Israeli soldier. The soldiers ordered the distressed laborers to kneel down and face the ground and unexpectedly showered them with a barrage of bullets, killing seven and wounding many others. Needless to say, the soldier was not charged with any crime.
16. Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run "Jews Only" job ads?
17. Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Israel to the American public?
18. Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party--Molodet--which advocates ethnic cleansing by openly calling for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the occupied territories?
19. Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the forced expulsion of Arabs from all Palestininan territory in 1948?
20. Did you know that the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel's third largest political party) openly advocates a 'Final Solution' to annihilate the Palestinians? Speaking at the widely broadcast sermon marking the last Passover, he declared of the Palestinians: "The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
I found this on the web.. kind of funny how you said Arabs have full and equal rights.
Source? "The web" is a bit... well, diffuse...
