Homosexuality, Gayness, Lesbian and Bisexuality...

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MaxShock
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19 Mar 2013, 1:37 pm

I've always believed that bisexuality/homosexuality is no worse than straight single/taken people looking at random people on the street sexually, and people already do this daily.

The Bible says that all sins are equal, and so homosexuality/bisexuality is just another form of adultery that is equal to the others.

The only religious debate I believe people can somewhat fairly have is marriage, which in The Bible it says that it was originally to be a ritual to start a family, but there are already straight couples who've lived together for 10 years, and yet haven't gotten married, and sometimes they have children, as well as straight married couples who don't intend on having children.

But still, are you sure you aren't just admiring other women's looks? Straight women do that all the time, and yet they don't have any sexual feelings towards each other. You can think someone looks pretty without wanting them in your bed.



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19 Mar 2013, 1:49 pm

It's not about love, it's about attraction. You're attracted to someone, you get to know them, you fall in love. You're attracted to someone, you hook up with them, you never call them again, or they never call you again. You're not attracted to someone, you get to know them, you love them.

You love your family, you love other human beings, I'd assume because of your faith, love is a valued very highly. But you're not attracted to them?

Then, you might be attracted to someone, but maybe you dont want to be intimately involved. Love and attraction can be mutually exclusive.

Most people want to be labeled. One side will want to call you a sinner the other side wants to call you gay. Neither is true according to what you described. If you follow either side, you're mind has been made by someone else, and you've missed out on the complexities of life.

If you feel uncomfortable with it, you have every right to seeks help, every right to not like the feelings. You're not wrong for feeling attraction to the same sex, and you're not wrong with feeling uncomfortable with it.

If you want to be strict in terms of what the bible says, it condems the action, not the person. So stick to guys given you may or may not like both, I say may or may not.

Our society is split between "it's a sin, it's wrong" and "you're gay, be proud." It sucks that you have to choose one side or the other, or that you have to choose at all. Some people are no doubt "gay" but not everyone loves musicals and parades....

And in no way should any person feel bad for thinking something.....


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19 Mar 2013, 3:08 pm

I know several nice, clean, Christian lesbians. I also know several nice, clean Christian gay guys.

What does being nice, clean or Christian have to do with who you are sexually attracted to?

As for what you should do about it, I think that if you are that curious you should try it and see. You may or may not like it. I would also suggest trying it with a guy too because you said you like guys, and that way you would have a better idea about what you prefer.

I would also not discuss something like that with my mother, especially since she tells you that the devil is making you have certain feelings. If she were rational about it and wasn't closed minded then I wouldn't suggest avoiding talking to her about it, but since she isn't, I'd suggest talking to a friend about it instead. If nothing else, call one of the help lines set up for gay and lesbian teens and young adults. A counselor there might be able to answer your questions better.


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19 Mar 2013, 5:36 pm

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
I even get afraid to have female friends now, cause what if I accidentally fell in love with one of them?

I think most denominations only consider homosexual acts sinful, not the inclination. If you are willing to accept that distinction, falling in love with a woman is no different from falling in love with a married man. Do you avoid friendship with married men? If you are bisexual, there may be more people with whom you can't have a sexual relationship and conform to the moral code of your religion, but is that really a reason to avoid friendship with anyone who is unavailable for marriage?

I think if you can be confident that you would not try to seduce a married man if you fell in love, then you can be equally confident about a woman. And I think according to the Bible it is more important that you avoid sex with someone who is already married to someone else. The prohibition against adultery is in the Ten Commandments. The prohibition against homosexuality isn't.

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
Other Christians think its not possible to fall in love with the same sex

I have a hard time thinking of an appropriate response to that, because it's too silly for words.

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
but I believe it is.

Lots of people have fallen in love with someone of the same sex. I'm sure you can find some on the LGBT forum on this site.

There most likely is a forum somewhere for Christians who are both devoted to their faith and homosexual or bisexual. You could search for that, and see how they reconcile the two.

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
Also my mother keeps saying that I could fight these feelings if I really tried

It is possible to get some control over your emotions, but how much control depends on which emotion. Three times I have avoided falling in love when I thought it was a bad idea, once I failed. I still avoided bothering the woman, control over actions being easier than control over emotions. But even when I did avoid falling in love, I only controlled how intense the attraction became, not whether it existed at all.



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20 Mar 2013, 6:28 pm

I am an atheist, and I am agnostic, but I would like to help you anyway, ShyChristianGirl.

First of all, you sound like a bisexual person with a preference for females.

Second of all, I don't think you are going to hell simply because you are attracted to the same sex. Being attracted to someone is not a crime. There are far worse things that happen every day - like murders, that are crimes. But your sexuality is not a crime - mainly because your sexuality is not something you choose - it is a part of who you are.

Third of all, I am bisexual as well. I used to try to avoid and suppress my attraction to females, partly because I didn't know about bisexuality at the time, partly because I previously identified as heterosexual, and partly because part of me thought it was wrong. Naturally, I did feel uncomfortable when I did think about this stuff. Then I put all of the pieces together one day, and I accepted who I was. You're going to need to accept who you are if you want to be happy.

Fourth of all, I completely understand the situation with your mother. I would never want to upset my mother either - fortunately she doesn't think homosexuals/bisexuals are bad, even though she herself is heterosexual. I think your mother may have to either learn to accept you for what you are, or ... something bad might happen.

As for the religious part, I really don't know how to help you, because I am, as I mentioned earlier, an atheist and an agnostic. Sorry.



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20 Mar 2013, 7:07 pm

My wife and I both fancy ourselves Christians - Lutherans, to be exact - but the undeniable fact is, my wife is bisexual. She has same sex attractions and fantasies, and had even experimented when she had been younger. But the fact remains, she is perfectly happy in a heterosexual marriage (to me :lol:). Just because you might be bisexual, or just bi-curious, that doesn't mean that you can't get married, and remain so happily.

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20 Mar 2013, 7:28 pm

There's nothing sinful about being proud of who you are.



ShyChristianGirl
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20 Mar 2013, 9:51 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Yes.

Youve got alot on your plate.

It might be just a phase, or it might be that you really are lesbian. Either would be okay. But either way you need time to sort it out. And your mom obviously isnt much help.

The two of you need something like a marriage counselor to sort it out between the two of you.


I really don't think its a phase. I thought that at first when I was 19, but I find myself thinking about this kind of stuff a lot and it really interests me and I'm now 23. I can't stop dreaming about it either. I've prayed for God's help lots of times, but it still won't go away and if I told my mom that. She'd probably just say that I'm just not trying hard enough and it really angers me. She just don't understand, because she's always been straight. So how could she? She doesn't even seem to try to understand me. I believe I'd be bisexual though. Not a lesbian, because I still like men too.

My mom wouldn't go to any counseling, because she doesn't believe in it. She doesn't believe that kind of stuff helps on anything. She can be very close minded when it comes to things like that. She thinks that everyone just has to help themselves.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:04 pm

Cei wrote:
Are you sure you're not starting to feel that way out of some sort of curiosity? I mean, I bet I could probably start feeling that women were attractive if I kept thinking about it a lot. Like how little kids can start being afraid of monsters under the bed if they start out thinking about there being monsters under the bed, despite having come up with the idea on their own and being certain that there's no such thing at first. You can tell yourself something and it reinforces your belief in it.

Still, the others are right in that you shouldn't just let your mom decide who you are. Respect and listen to your parents, sure, but be your own person. Whatever you do, it should be what you think God wants you to do, not just what your mom wants.


Well these thoughts have been reoccurring for almost 4 years now. So now I'm thinking its turning into more then just curiosity. At first I wasn't even trying to think about it when I just suddenly started getting those thoughts, because to be honest I've always been highly against same sexes being together. So it was even a shocker to me, because at that very same time that I started having those feelings I was also against it which is very strange.

I try to please my mom in every which way that I can, because she's very important to me. She shouldn't try to run my life though. I know she's only trying to help me and I always take her advice and listen to her on what I think is right. I'm always polite and respectful. This is going to make her really sick though. I don't want her to have a heart attack and die, because she's got really bad health problems. Then she's gonna be making me feel guilty about that saying that its going to kill her. I just don't know what to do. I feel that God would want me to be happy though. So why would he want to condemn happiness? He's very important to me though and I do my very best for him in everything I do.



ShyChristianGirl
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20 Mar 2013, 10:17 pm

fueledbycoffee wrote:
First, don't come out until you're absolutely sure about this and there's no way around it.

Second, if it'll make you happy in the long run, go for it. If you'll be just as happy in a relationship that doesn't rock the boat, play around a bit and then go for that option.

We've gotten used to (in this country, at least) belittling people because they don't agree with gayness. Looking at it from their pov, though, you being gay means that you are likely going to be parted in the afterlife and will suffer for all eternity, in their eyes. So cut your mom some slack, and don't throw it around on a whim. If you feel you must, however, don't hesitate.


Since my cousin just came out as a lesbian. It made me start to think more. That if she finally decided to act on it maybe it would be okay for me too. I've felt this way long before she ever came out with it though. Its just that its kind of encouraged me a little more and she's still a Christian. I'm still very unsure if she's really doing the right thing though. That's why I'm still trying to wait before I act on it.

In my last 2 relationships I've had with a guy. I've always found myself thinking about women and if I was bisexual or not. I really don't want to go to Hell at the end of time though I really don't and I try so hard to be good. This just might ruin it. I really hope it doesn't. I love God with all of my heart and I want to go to Heaven. I've been being good and nice to my mom about it and tried to go along with her as much as I could, but I don't know how much longer that I'm going to be able to do that. I'm very nice, polite and respectful towards her.



ShyChristianGirl
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20 Mar 2013, 10:19 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
You might want to look into Christian denominations that aren't bigoted against gays. They exist. There are also resources for LGBT Christians. I'm not a Christian, so I'm no expert on them, but a little search turned up this, which might be a start.

Gay Christian Network link

Good luck and don't let people pressure you into believing that a loving God would create people with various attractions to each other, then want to us to burn in eternal torture for having them. That's silly, sadistic fantasy concocted by imperfect men.


Thank you very much. I'll look into it.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:28 pm

FMX wrote:
I'm not going to say anything about Christianity and its attitude to homosexuality here, as I'm not Christian, but I'll make a few general comments. Firstly, I think you're doing the right thing by exploring this. If you've felt this way for 4 years sweeping it under the carpet will not magically make it go away. One thing to consider would be exactly why you feel it's "disgusting". Secondly, dismissing it as "work of the Devil" will not help either. It's great that you're so close to your mother, but I'm afraid she's of no help to you in this case, because as you say, she really cannot understand what you feel. There are other people you could talk to about this, though, including Christians. You're certainly not the only Christian woman to have feelings for women, despite what "they say". Clearly, it's not accepted in that community, so nobody will openly admit to being a homosexual. And a finally, to echo what Tequila wrote, it's not necesary to put a label on yourself. Incidentally, in the days when the Bible was written there was no concept of "heterosexual/homosexual person", only "heterosexual/homosexual activity", ie. it was something people did, not something people were.


I've tried to forget those feelings several times, but its just not working for me. I can't get over it. I still think that doing sexual acts with women is a bit disgusting, but rather interesting. Mens sex parts kind of scare me anyway, but I'm still attracted to men. My mom keeps going on and on about saying that its the work of the devil every time we talk about this kind of stuff. I hear nothing, but negative things about it. My mom is so not understanding. Not a bit and I'm afraid she might put me out of the house if I act on my true feelings. She highly does not accept it.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:32 pm

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
Then she's gonna be making me feel guilty about that saying that its going to kill her. I just don't know what to do. I feel that God would want me to be happy though. So why would he want to condemn happiness? He's very important to me though and I do my very best for him in everything I do.


Man is biased. Man hates man, especially if he is different. If you hate someone, there is a passage in the Bible that you can use to justify it. Unfortunately, we live in a time where God's judgment has come to mean more than God's forgiveness, hate more than love. If we fall into that trap, we are equally damned for wearing outfits containing both linen and wool, or for eating shellfish.

You are a Christian. This means that you follow the teachings of Christ. I bring this up because Christ never breathed a word about homosexuality. Homosexuality was outlawed by Leviticus, which is part of the Jewish Torah. It was outlawed in the Old Covenant, the covenant made between God and the Israelites. This is a central concept of Judaism. The Old Testament is largely background information. Christ was the real star. It should be his teachings that you focus on. Christ came to forge a New Covenant. He supped with sinners, treated them as equals, for all are equals in the eyes of God. According to Christian tradition, when Christ died upon the cross, all sins were forgiven. All sins. Now and forever. This doesn't mean that you can go around murdering people. This meant that the soul was more important than small flaws and minor slip ups. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The Christian message was that we are all flawed, but so long as you are basically a loving, decent person, so long as you do not make people suffer, and kill them, God forgives. If your are homosexual, bisexual, transgender... God may not like it, but more important is whether or not you love your neighbor, are a good servant to him, and bring light into the world. The God of the Old Testament may despise you for being such, if you are. The God of the New Testament, the God of Christ, does not damn you for an inborn, genetic trait.

Be true to yourself, whether you are heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. Just live your life in a way that is good, around that. You are human. You are flawed. God forgives. End of story.

As for your mother, that is pure emotional blackmail. You can have respect for your mother, but your life is yours. Come out to her or don't, so long as it's what you want to do. Don't be bullied. You're better than that.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:33 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Your creator made you as you are. If you believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God, then it is a necesary conclusion from that belief that God knows about your attractions and means for you to have them.

Now, it's up to you--not your mother, not your priest or pastor--to decide on your relationship with God. It's up to you to decide whether your sexuality is a gift to be celebrated, or a test to be passed. Some people turn to their faith, alone, and deny their sexuality. Some people abandon their faith. Some, find a way to reconcile the two.

I don't say which is the right answer, but I do say that you are perfectly capable of rationalizing your faith and your sexuality. You will find the answer that is right for you.


That's how I'm starting to think as well. I mean if God wanted to. He could of made it that everyone was straight, but he has allowed for it to enter many peoples mind. So it should be okay, but I'm still not so sure. That's just how I'm starting to feel, cause I could be wrong.

Well out of those if I could. I'd like to be bisexual and still be a good Christian if that was possible, but I know some people say that you can't be both. So I'm rather confused.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:40 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
To ease your mind: the Bible doesn't say anything against Lesbianism. Only male homosexuality. Lesbians get a free pass.


Yes, but Homosexual stands for both men and women. If you read it on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

This very line here.

"The most common terms for homosexual people are lesbian for females and gay for males, though gay is also used to refer generally to both homosexual males and females."



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20 Mar 2013, 10:45 pm

Dragoness wrote:
I am an atheist, and I am agnostic, but I would like to help you anyway, ShyChristianGirl.

First of all, you sound like a bisexual person with a preference for females.

Second of all, I don't think you are going to hell simply because you are attracted to the same sex. Being attracted to someone is not a crime. There are far worse things that happen every day - like murders, that are crimes. But your sexuality is not a crime - mainly because your sexuality is not something you choose - it is a part of who you are.

Third of all, I am bisexual as well. I used to try to avoid and suppress my attraction to females, partly because I didn't know about bisexuality at the time, partly because I previously identified as heterosexual, and partly because part of me thought it was wrong. Naturally, I did feel uncomfortable when I did think about this stuff. Then I put all of the pieces together one day, and I accepted who I was. You're going to need to accept who you are if you want to be happy.

Fourth of all, I completely understand the situation with your mother. I would never want to upset my mother either - fortunately she doesn't think homosexuals/bisexuals are bad, even though she herself is heterosexual. I think your mother may have to either learn to accept you for what you are, or ... something bad might happen.

As for the religious part, I really don't know how to help you, because I am, as I mentioned earlier, an atheist and an agnostic. Sorry.


Actually my mom does think that Homosexuals and bisexuals are bad. She doesn't hate the person. She's just very against that they are what they are. She actually even told me that even if it wasn't a sin she still wouldn't like it, because I asked her. She thinks its totally disgusting either way. I don't know. I don't think she could ever accept me if I turned that way. Our closeness may just be destroyed by it and I really don't want that to happen. I'm so scared. I love her so much.