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Pat Condell: "I'm offended by Islam"

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GGPViper
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03 Apr 2013, 3:05 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
There is a Rabbinical Teaching: God counts the tears of a woman.

Wife beating is very anti Jewish.

ruveyn

Show me a female rabbi before you claim that Judaism has its own house in order.

Last time I checked, 648 (Wiki only lists 552. Time for an update) is higher than one... And that is just one college...
http://huc.edu/alumni/statistics.shtml



Tequila
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03 Apr 2013, 3:07 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Last time I checked, 648 (Wiki only lists 552. Time for an update) is higher than one... And that is just one college...
http://huc.edu/alumni/statistics.shtml


Indeed - they are rare, but they exist.



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03 Apr 2013, 3:34 pm

Tequila wrote:
Greb wrote:
That doesn't make it wrong.


No, you don't understand - it treats rape victims the same as those who have consented. It doesn't recognise even the concept of rape. (I know that there is a condition where they may recognise it if they can get four male witnesses to testify, but how likely is it that there will be four men?)


I understand perfectly. But a language states a fact. Using a different language doesn't change the fact.


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03 Apr 2013, 7:15 pm

Tequila wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Last time I checked, 648 (Wiki only lists 552. Time for an update) is higher than one... And that is just one college...
http://huc.edu/alumni/statistics.shtml


Indeed - they are rare, but they exist.


Less religious Jews , called reform or conservative (a little more religious) have female rabbis. The most religious/traditional Jews (Orthodox) only have male rabbis.



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03 Apr 2013, 7:24 pm

Greb wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Greb wrote:
That doesn't make it wrong.


No, you don't understand - it treats rape victims the same as those who have consented. It doesn't recognise even the concept of rape. (I know that there is a condition where they may recognise it if they can get four male witnesses to testify, but how likely is it that there will be four men?)


I understand perfectly. But a language states a fact. Using a different language doesn't change the fact.


Well, I guess either way you both agree that a woman being stoned to death after she was raped (recognized or not) is an example of the problems with Sharia law and Islam.



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03 Apr 2013, 8:34 pm

Bolding mine.

Quote:
I'm offended by the dozens of Sharia courts in Britain that are allowed by law to treat women as less than fully human and by the thousands of genital mutilations, not one of which has ever been punished, despite carrying a theoretical 14 year prison sentence and I'm offended and embarrassed in equal measure by the deafening silence on these matters from "progressive" western feminists who think we shouldn't impose our values on Muslim women because that's the job of Muslim men.



This is one of the ones that always gets me and it doesn't just happen in the UK. American progressives typically either silently silent consent to or outright defend Islam on this matter.


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03 Apr 2013, 8:55 pm

The explanation of this blindness of what islam really is by westerners is the presence of the defense mechanism regarding the feelings towards islam and muslims: reaction formation. From wiki:

Quote:
In psychoanalytic theory, reaction formation is a defensive process (defense mechanism) in which anxiety-producing or unacceptable emotions and impulses are mastered by exaggeration (hypertrophy) of the directly opposing tendency


So basicaly, there are tendencies towards hating muslims and islam by westerners, but that tendency is felt as unacceptable. So the defense mechanism activates and suddenly islam is a religion worthy of all the respect (even though these people don't have a clue of what islam really is), they defend it from any atack. Simultaneously, many of these persons heavily criticize christianity, showing a double standard.

It's an interesting psychological phenomenon happening worldwide.



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04 Apr 2013, 3:39 am

ModusPonens wrote:
The explanation of this blindness of what islam really is by westerners is the presence of the defense mechanism regarding the feelings towards islam and muslims: reaction formation. From wiki:

Quote:
In psychoanalytic theory, reaction formation is a defensive process (defense mechanism) in which anxiety-producing or unacceptable emotions and impulses are mastered by exaggeration (hypertrophy) of the directly opposing tendency


So basicaly, there are tendencies towards hating muslims and islam by westerners, but that tendency is felt as unacceptable. So the defense mechanism activates and suddenly islam is a religion worthy of all the respect (even though these people don't have a clue of what islam really is), they defend it from any atack. Simultaneously, many of these persons heavily criticize christianity, showing a double standard.

It's an interesting psychological phenomenon happening worldwide.


That's interesting.

I can be considered left-winged, but I'm quite sick of this kind of approaches that are quite common in the left wing. Didn't know the psychological concept you're talking about, so I always defined it as 'emotional blindness'.

I'm quite inmune to it, something that I consider an aspie gift.

But I just always wondered: is this 'inmunity' a common trait for aspies or is it not?


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04 Apr 2013, 4:41 am

GGPViper wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
My information is that Islam does not see women as inferior, that these are cultural norms that Jews by the way practice in the Middle East as well...

Your information is crap.

Please - oh, pretty handsome beautiful hot attractive please with moon sugar Onatopp - ask me to elaborate.


Nope. Its right. As fanatic traditionel jews the woman is supposed to work for money AND do the housework AND children, so that men can study the thora all day and discuss religious textes all day as they are supposed by their religion. (Others would say they sit around on their asses, chitchatting and drinking coffee but discussing the thora sounds sowhat more important.)

Also in islam woman is worth less, as it is in official christianity. The thing is that most people dont believe in this religions like fanatics, but most people have a moderate christian believe or an moderate islam believe.


Blind are only fanatics. Be it religious or political ones. And people that are blinded by newspaper and live in fear of the muslim danger, when the last great terrorists murders in europe during the last years, were commited by political nazi extremists. There is definitely an increasing danger by all sorts of extremists, but people should be aware of all of them and take all of them serious, instead of pointing and focusing at one extremist camp, and ignoring the backstabbers behind them that were hiding.



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04 Apr 2013, 4:46 am

Greb wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
The explanation of this blindness of what islam really is by westerners is the presence of the defense mechanism regarding the feelings towards islam and muslims: reaction formation. From wiki:

Quote:
In psychoanalytic theory, reaction formation is a defensive process (defense mechanism) in which anxiety-producing or unacceptable emotions and impulses are mastered by exaggeration (hypertrophy) of the directly opposing tendency


So basicaly, there are tendencies towards hating muslims and islam by westerners, but that tendency is felt as unacceptable. So the defense mechanism activates and suddenly islam is a religion worthy of all the respect (even though these people don't have a clue of what islam really is), they defend it from any atack. Simultaneously, many of these persons heavily criticize christianity, showing a double standard.

It's an interesting psychological phenomenon happening worldwide.


That's interesting.

I can be considered left-winged, but I'm quite sick of this kind of approaches that are quite common in the left wing. Didn't know the psychological concept you're talking about, so I always defined it as 'emotional blindness'.

I'm quite inmune to it, something that I consider an aspie gift.

But I just always wondered: is this 'inmunity' a common trait for aspies or is it not?


Idk, but my guess is that there is no such imunity. Aspies have emotions and consciousness, so they have defense mechanisms like everyone else. Note that these emotions that are felt as unacceptable are not conscious, so you might have this defense mechanism in action without knowing. I know I have certain defense mechanisms that are active (because I do therapy) and I'm an aspie.



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04 Apr 2013, 5:41 am

Schneekugel wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
My information is that Islam does not see women as inferior, that these are cultural norms that Jews by the way practice in the Middle East as well...

Your information is crap.

Nope. Its right. As fanatic traditionel jews the woman is supposed to work for money AND do the housework AND children, so that men can study the thora all day and discuss religious textes all day as they are supposed by their religion. (Others would say they sit around on their asses, chitchatting and drinking coffee but discussing the thora sounds sowhat more important.)

Source? And more importantly, prevalence? Last time I checked, gender equality is part of the Israeli Declaration of Independence.

And Israel likely has the largest female participation in the military of any country.

(BTW, I assume you are referring to Israel, as there aren't a lot of Jews outside of Israel in the Middle East)

Schneekugel wrote:
Also in islam woman is worth less, as it is in official christianity.

So, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? :scratch:

Schneekugel wrote:
The thing is that most people dont believe in this religions like fanatics, but most people have a moderate christian believe or an moderate islam believe.

No. How many times do I need to debunk this predictable "all religions are equally bad" response?

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/ ... 2-2010.pdf



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04 Apr 2013, 6:49 am

ModusPonens wrote:
Greb wrote:
That's interesting.

I can be considered left-winged, but I'm quite sick of this kind of approaches that are quite common in the left wing. Didn't know the psychological concept you're talking about, so I always defined it as 'emotional blindness'.

I'm quite inmune to it, something that I consider an aspie gift.

But I just always wondered: is this 'inmunity' a common trait for aspies or is it not?


Idk, but my guess is that there is no such imunity. Aspies have emotions and consciousness, so they have defense mechanisms like everyone else. Note that these emotions that are felt as unacceptable are not conscious, so you might have this defense mechanism in action without knowing. I know I have certain defense mechanisms that are active (because I do therapy) and I'm an aspie.


Up to what point?

I have emotions, of course, but I feel like they are in a different 'room' from reasoning. I don't feel like any emotion is unacceptable since I don't feel emotions as an inner part of me, but an attribute that I carry with me, so I don't feel identified with them, so none is unacceptable since they're outer attributes. Damn, difficult to explain.


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04 Apr 2013, 9:25 am

thomas81 wrote:

Show me a female rabbi before you claim that Judaism has its own house in order.


The Rabbi who teaches our Torah Study class here where I live is a female. And she is very smart and learned also.

There are thousands of female Rabbis in the U.S.

ruveyn



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04 Apr 2013, 10:41 am

This is definitely offensive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ScBUVkvjFs[/youtube]Shown on PA TV only a few weeks ago.



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04 Apr 2013, 2:16 pm

^

the title of that video is deceptive. The child in the video doesn't actually say 'Jews are pigs' she says 'the enemies of allah are pigs'. The poster of the video put in (ie Jews) below hand to deliberately project their own interpretation between the lines.


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04 Apr 2013, 3:33 pm

thomas81 wrote:
^

the title of that video is deceptive. The child in the video doesn't actually say 'Jews are pigs' she says 'the enemies of allah are pigs'. The poster of the video put in (ie Jews) below hand to deliberately project their own interpretation between the lines.


If you look at the Islamic scripture, it is said that Jews were the descendants of pigs.