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pokerface
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13 Dec 2013, 5:23 pm

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
The 20th century philosopher and "spiritual entertainer" Alan Watts traveled the world in the 1960s explaining eastern philosophies to western audiences. He spoke a few times about westerners wanting to learn eastern philosophies. One problem with westerners going to eastern spiritual centers (a westerner going to a Zen monastery in Japan was the example he used) is that the rituals do have a purpose, yes, for the people of that culture. Many of the rituals and techniques of those schools are used to break the bonds of the culture those people grew up in and live in so they can see things in a new way outside the way their culture conditions them to see.

For westerners, those rituals and techniques may be worse than useless because we come from a different culture entirely. You are basically learning something just to unlearn it. But you can't expect a particular school or tradition to change its curriculum for people from another culture even if the end result may be enlightenment. I'd suggest just be aware of the possibility some of the teachings and methods used may not even be necessary if you know what is going on and why those teachings and methods exist.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to live a monastic life. The routine and peace and quiet should be very nice for someone with autism. But if the goal is to seek spiritual awakening or enlightenment, that can be done much more simply. Alan Watts also said something to the effect that yes, spiritual instruction is needed IF you think it is needed. People make all kinds of excuses to themselves, saying it will take years of dedication and meditation and sacrifice, but there are other people who just say psshaw, why is that necessary, and they are enlightened instantly.

A warning about Alan Watts: some say he did not really teach Zen; he taught about Alan Watts. To some degree this is true, but he was an eclectic genius on many subjects with a very broad perspective and awareness of the limitations we all have from our own culture and even the structure of the language we think our thoughts in.


I forgot to add that a monastic life is not necessarily easy for autists because your are surrounded by others 24 hours a day. A lot of us live alone and some of us have limited our contacts with others and the outside world to the bare minimum. I am one of those people. If I ever go to a retreat or a monastry it will probably be the hardest thing I ever did and it may even be out of league.



pokerface
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13 Dec 2013, 5:25 pm

thomas81 wrote:
You should go to China and become one of those shaolin monks.

That way you can learn buddhism and kung fu at the same time.


I have just turned 47 this week. I don't think my tiny body can cope with a harsh kung fu regimen anymore. :lol:



lotuspuppy
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13 Dec 2013, 6:15 pm

I, too, am planning on it one day. I probably won't do it any time soon, as I want a career. I'm content to be a layperson at the moment. But being a monk would not be a bad idea for me. I thrive on structure, and would welcome the isolation (or at least the technological disconnect) that a monastic lifestyle would bring.



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13 Dec 2013, 6:25 pm

pokerface wrote:
Alan Watts may have a point there allthough I think that at least some of these rituals can have a universal value. Apart from the buddhist rituals I think it is quite hard for western buddhists who leave their own country to enter monastries in for instance Japan, Thailand or the Himalaya to come to terms with and understand the culture of the country they temporarily or permanently inhabit Not to mention the fact that a lack of knowledge of the local language can be a problem.

That doesn't take away the fact that I would prefer to go to the countries that buddhism originates from and partake in the rituals as well. That is because of the fact that I am a bit afraid of a watered down and " easy to digest" form of buddhism that is specifically meant and adapted for the benefit of us westerners I am aware of the fact that the sectarianism in buddhism is caused by the fact that buddism has spread to different coountries and cultures which all had an effect on buddhism. Zen is influenced by the japanese culture for instance and tibetan buddhism by the tibetan culture and the original bon religion, There is nothing wrong with that in itself but still!


Hello

I'm very, very happy for you. That is a very noble aspiration. :)

First of all, Asperger's is not a problem. Don't worry about that.

In the process of ordination you first take the 8 precepts for a few months, then samaneri, and then full ordination. The time as an 8 precept lay person is kind of a transition period where you decide if the monastic life is really what you want. You don't have to worry about being with people all the time. In monasteries each monk/nun has its meditation hut where they spend their day studying and meditating. You will have alone time, don't worry. :) But you will also need community time to learn the teachings and adjust your behaviour in accordance with the monastic discipline.

For those who have that will and opportunity, I imagine it's a wonderful life.

Be prepared, however, to meet prejudice against women from conservative male buddhists _ which, by the way, has no basis in the authentic teachings of the Buddha. As far as I am aware of, the buddhist nun monastery in Australia is the most friendly to women. Plus it's a western culture, so you wouldn't feel too out of touch. Thailand, although an excelent country to be a monk, it's not very good to be a nun. Plus the food is very unhealthy.

The australian monastery is Theravada, though. You seem to be interested in Zen and tibetan buddhism. Nevertheless, I wouldn't buy into the "this vehicle is faster than that vehicle" BS. In fact, I would be suspicious of it. I know I could have gone directly to Theravada if I hadn't believed those lies.

In the meanwhile, if you want to experience a retreat, I would advise a 10 day vipassana retreat in the Goenka tradition. They are based on donations so, at the end of the retreat, you only give what you want to give and nothing more. You will learn a skill that stays with you for life. After that introduction you can move to even better things.

If you need any information regarding this, or any related subject, please PM me. I will do my best to provide it.

Metta _/\_



pokerface
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13 Dec 2013, 8:45 pm

I once saw this great documentary on the dutch buddhist broadcasting network about inmates in an american prison who started to practice Vipassana meditation while there were still in prison. It had a powerful effect on them and it was very moving to see it all happen. I watched these guys with admiration because it must have been very hard for them. It was great to see how all these tough looking guys were truly meditating. Things like that should be available in prisons all around the world for inmates who are interested in it, on a voluntary basis ofcourse. It really did something with these men. I really hope that the guys who are still in that prison will get to opportunity to continue their practice.

I would very much like to get some more information from you by the way.



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13 Dec 2013, 9:31 pm

Hi

PM me anytime you want. I mean it.

Abotu the documentaries: there are two of them:

1- "The Dhamma Brothers"

2- "Doing Time Doing Vipassana"

Last time I check, these were available on youtube. It's very interesting to see the transformation from murderer to meditator. By the way, if you don't know the story of Angulimala, read it (it's a couple of pages long). It's hard to separate myth from truth, but it's interesting nevertheless. :)



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13 Dec 2013, 9:56 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
Hi

PM me anytime you want. I mean it.

Abotu the documentaries: there are two of them:

1- "The Dhamma Brothers"

2- "Doing Time Doing Vipassana"

Last time I check, these were available on youtube. It's very interesting to see the transformation from murderer to meditator. By the way, if you don't know the story of Angulimala, read it (it's a couple of pages long). It's hard to separate myth from truth, but it's interesting nevertheless. :)


The documentary I saw was called The Dhamma Brothers. I haven't seen number two yet but I certainly will if I get the opportunity because I loved "The Dhamma Brothers". I saw it again recently because it is on the website of the Buddhist broadcasting channel here in Holland. Now I'm going to read the story of Angulimala if I can find it on the web.



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13 Dec 2013, 10:14 pm

I have just read the mythical story of Angulimala and his encounter with the Buddha. At first I thought it was a bit macabre but it obviously had a deeper meaning to it. I also read an article about a british organization called Angulimala and I was quite impressed by it. It's a good thing that such an organization exists. I had never heard of it before. Thanks!



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13 Dec 2013, 10:31 pm

Wrt. the City of 10K Buddhas, it really isn't a vacation place. 'Civilians' and non-buddhists are allowed to visit (I went as part of a class on Eastern Religions) one day a week and eat lunch, but they're as stringent with the actual practitioners as any monastery. I agree with what others have said, though, that you should probably try a few retreats before you jump in all the way, and decide on which form of Buddhism is right for you. Vipassana and Zen are pretty different from each other both in practice and in philosophy.



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13 Dec 2013, 10:57 pm

LKL wrote:
Wrt. the City of 10K Buddhas, it really isn't a vacation place. 'Civilians' and non-buddhists are allowed to visit (I went as part of a class on Eastern Religions) one day a week and eat lunch, but they're as stringent with the actual practitioners as any monastery. I agree with what others have said, though, that you should probably try a few retreats before you jump in all the way, and decide on which form of Buddhism is right for you. Vipassana and Zen are pretty different from each other both in practice and in philosophy.


Well, actualy this is not quite right. Zen practice is started with mindfulness of the breath and moves to mindfulness of the mind, which is a kind of vipassana _ roughly speaking. What is really curious is that, although the word "zen" comes from the word "jhana / dhyana", the jhanas were lost in Zen practice. (The jhanas are 4 successive states of tranquility-&-concentration, which are then used to do vipassana from these heightened states. They were stated by the Buddha to be an integral part of the noble eightfold path, namely, right concentration.)

About the documentaries, the dhamma brothers is better than the other one. But it's still very worth watching. While I am at it, the best documentary I ever saw on buddhist practice was about chinese buddhist hermit monks. It's called "Amongst White Clouds". It's on youtube, but the subtitles have some flaws. Even being so, I couldn't stop watching.



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13 Dec 2013, 11:04 pm

Zen practice is *much* less ritualistic than classic, Tibetan Vipassana, and Zen doesn't really have any deities (even the Buddha is regarded as a teacher, not a god) the way that Vipassana does. That's what I meant. They're still both meditatively focused versions of Buddhism, though.



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14 Dec 2013, 12:16 am

Expect to have your head shaved bald, buddhist nuns are bald like the monks.


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14 Dec 2013, 12:41 am

You may or may not have to give up your car and other possessions.The nun and monk I know did not have to,they also have jobs.They don't wear the monastic robes to work,but they wear colors that are the same.Saffron and maroon.Both have their heads shaved.
The deities in Tibetan Buddhism are symbolic,there are wrathful ones and they have a peaceful counterpart.The wrathful ones are not bad,but are used to help overcome obstacles.
Most ceremonies are done in Tibetan,the text usually has a guide in how to pronounce the words.You also use drums,damaru and chod drum,and a bell in some rituals.I liked the purification rituals.Riwo Sanchod,it's a smoke offering.Even to set up the shrine has to be done a certain way.The offering bowls must be a certain distance apart,fresh offerings must be put out each day and there is a chant for this.Some of the rituals should really not be discussed around ultra conservative Christians,they won't understand.You are also not suppose to use a mantra unless you have had the teaching and the empowerment for that deity.If you decide to do Dzoghen,expect to do lots of counting on the mala and lots of prostrations.


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14 Dec 2013, 12:45 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p8SKEsGTbw[/youtube]


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14 Dec 2013, 12:49 am

Ive come across a few Buddhist nuns in my area they are very nice people I greeted them in their native language and they were extremely happy and bowed and I bowed back!


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14 Dec 2013, 1:46 am

There are also four different schools of Tibetan Buddhism.


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