Why is rape seen as being as bad as killing somebody?

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donnie_darko
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03 Jul 2014, 3:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Rape and murder are right up there heinous crimes!

Both require swift and painful punishment for the perpetrator.

Painful? I don't know what country you live in, but here in the US we have (supposedly) banned cruel punishment.

kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2014, 8:56 am

I'm from the US.

I didn't say "cruel," I said "painful."

people should be held accountable to their actions.

GGPViper
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03 Jul 2014, 9:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

I'm from the US.

I didn't say "cruel," I said "painful."

people should be held accountable to their actions.

In a legal context that is the same thing.

The US Supreme court has held in numerable cases that "unnecessary and wanton infliction of pain" is cruel and unusual punishment according to the 8th amendment.

So in the US, a desire for painful punishment is a desire for unconstitutional punishment by definition.

Ectryon
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03 Jul 2014, 9:46 am

GGPViper wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

I'm from the US.

I didn't say "cruel," I said "painful."

people should be held accountable to their actions.

And yet no concerted has been launched to end the rape culture within prisons. This has become a running joke. Furthermore, unnecessary and wanton really don't mean all that much. When does it become necessary and what mealy mouthed politician couldn't argue that the most gratuitous infliction of pain isn't wanton?

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kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2014, 10:22 am

I agree with the "wanton" and "unnecessary" part.

Spiderpig
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03 Jul 2014, 5:29 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

That doesn't mean a rape victim can never feel happy again though, or that their life is worthless.

In a society where a raped woman is considered ?damaged goods?, or just blamed for attracting the rapist, and therefore shunned or worse, that may effectively be the case.

I think an important part of the matter is that, traditionally, a woman was always treated like underage and the property of her father or her husband. Raping her was probably the greatest affront to the honor of the man who owned her, so he would naturally seek an appropriate revenge. Women don?t really need to have rights of their own for rape to be considered the most heinous of crimes.

On the other hand, by raping a man, you just showed how unmanly he actually was, so, as long as you didn?t fear him retaliating himself, it was totally OK.

I?m pretty sure this is still the case in most of the world.

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03 Jul 2014, 6:26 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Well if I were male like you, the last thing I would ever want to happen to me is to be raped by another male so it seems like it would be easy to see why a woman would think it a horrible crime. Would you want a male to rape you? Men can get raped as well.

was gonna say that. The OP's friend was female, and in my experience females are more upset by rape scenes in movies than are men. But men do tend to remember that scene in Lawrence of Arabia when Peter O'Tool (as the title character) falls captive to the Turks, and the group of Turkish soldiers sort of spread eagle him in his cell in a way that implies that theyre gonna gang rape him (they had to artfully imply things in movies that they werent allowed to graphically show back then).

kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2014, 6:44 pm

Rape scenes upset me, too. I'm a heterosexual, male-looking man. I don't understand why people like to watch violence on TV.

donnie_darko
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03 Jul 2014, 9:07 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

That doesn't mean a rape victim can never feel happy again though, or that their life is worthless.

In a society where a raped woman is considered ?damaged goods?, or just blamed for attracting the rapist, and therefore shunned or worse, that may effectively be the case.
.

True, but I think the solution is to change that attitude rather than simply up the punishment. Nobody should ever be ashamed to be a victim.

heavenlyabyss
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05 Jul 2014, 2:42 am

donnie_darko wrote:

Pobbles wrote:

Murderers end the suffering of the victim du jour, rapists let the victim suffer for the rest of their lives.

That doesn't mean a rape victim can never feel happy again though, or that their life is worthless. I think this idea that rape is a "fate worse than death" is insulting to victims and counter-productive to their healing. Not to mention murder is really more of a crime towards the victim's loved ones than it is against them per se and many murders involve torture.

I agree. Rape is terrible but it is insulting (and rather ludicrous) to victims to say that they would be better off dead. How insulting can we possibly get? It's just mean to say such a thing. And dumb

Killing an innocent is worse than murder. A victim of rape can overcome their problems and realize that the rapist is to blame, not themselves. A victim of murder has no such luxury.

mr_bigmouth_502
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05 Jul 2014, 10:58 pm

I think rape is worse than murder. Why? Because the victim has to deal with the pain and humiliation for the rest of their lives, whereas a murder victim is already dead and thus incapable of feeling. Murder is still a heinous crime that leaves behind plenty of pain and misery for the victim's loved ones, but I would rather be killed than raped.

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06 Jul 2014, 7:13 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I would arguer that using pain caused as a measure leaves murder as the worse crime. Rape is painful to the invidual but murder leaves behind family friends relatives and innocent bystanders to deal with the subsequent trauma. Then there's the actual murderer wrining his hands over whether to use the canal or the pig sty to dispose of the body

heavenlyabyss
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06 Jul 2014, 4:20 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

But why should they feel humiliated? Let's not give rapists more power than they deserve.

mr_bigmouth_502
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07 Jul 2014, 1:17 am

Ectryon wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

When someone is murdered, their family and loved ones suffer. When someone is raped, they suffer AS WELL as their family and loved ones. Arguably, it can be stated that rape causes more suffering than murder.

heavenlyabyss wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

But why should they feel humiliated? Let's not give rapists more power than they deserve.

People just do. It's not a question of whether people "should" or "shouldn't." Being raped is not something one takes pride in, and it's one of the most downright awful things that can happen to a person. You can't go up to a rape victim and tell them to "man up" or "stop feeling sorry for yourself". That's just inconsiderate.

heavenlyabyss
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07 Jul 2014, 3:57 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Ectryon wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

heavenlyabyss wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

I u

But why should they feel humiliated? Let's not give rapists more power than they deserve.

I understand the point you are making, but there is a fine line between recognizing the trauma of rape and empowering the survivor. I think if you asked most people who were raped, would they rather be dead they would probably say no.

It's just this whole comparing rape to death that I find rather distasteful. Rapists are idiots. They are weak and pathetic. Now, someone kills you with a shot of a bullet to the head They are weak and pathetic as well. The difference is you're gone. You have no recourse. Taking a life is worse than rape. I don't think that's debatable. The idea is to make the rapist look like a pathetic idiot. This is how people move on. Not by dwelling in misery.

mr_bigmouth_502
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07 Jul 2014, 4:02 am

I would still rather die than be raped, just saying.

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