The Israel Empire plan.

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31 Jul 2014, 9:34 am

The Ottoman Empire WAS Turkey.

Present-day Turkey is a somewhat large remnant of the previous Turkish Ottoman Empire.

The solution to the Middle East program is a two-state solution. And to inculcate the notion that the "past in the past."

Yes, Israel was arbitrarily "made" into a state by various Western states. Yes, various Arabs were thrown off their land by this action.

Both have historic claims to the land which Israel occupies. Quite possibly, the Arabs, in general, have a more recent claim to lands which the Jews didn't buy from the Ottomans.

However, it would be in everybody's best interest that a two-state solution is arrived at. Maybe, Israel could accept its pre-1967 borders, and the Palestinians could hold sway over the rest. All this with a strict prohibition against any terroristic activity toward each other (it would be nice if that would be realized!_

simon_says
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31 Jul 2014, 10:55 am

There will always be far right, in particular religious jews, who have extreme views about the scope of Israel. Should we use Bin Laden as the baseline for Islamic ambitions?

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31 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

simon_says wrote:

There will always be far right, in particular religious jews, who have extreme views about the scope of Israel. Should we use Bin Laden as the baseline for Islamic ambitions?

Exactly. With the occasional exceptions like the Nazis in Germany, the lunatic right rarely gains the upper hand to execute their nationalistic plans. And even in the case of the Nazis, that had been due to extraordinary conditions that led to their rise to power.

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tarantella64
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01 Aug 2014, 9:50 pm

Jeez, that's almost as good as The Elders of Zion, Boo. You realize that the only people who want anything to do with this nonsense are conspiracy-site owners, right?

Of course, if Europe can't start dealing better with its own antisemitism, they're going to have to find some more colonial territory to slice up and abandon soon. That patch by you's getting crowded, and New York's not long for this world. Hallooo, Toronto!

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02 Aug 2014, 4:05 am

tarantella64 wrote:

This document is not a conspiracy theory; read the headline again:

This essay originally appeared in Hebrew in KIVUNIM (Directions), A Journal for Judaism and Zionism; Issue No, 14?Winter, 5742, February 1982, Editor: Yoram Beck. Editorial Committee: Eli Eyal, Yoram Beck, Amnon Hadari, Yohanan Manor, Elieser Schweid. Published by the Department of Publicity/The World Zionist Organization, Jerusalem.

It doesn't matter if conspiracy site owners use it, but this document is real, it's a material that exists. It is written by some Zionist elites mentioned above and published in Israel on an Israeli Journal dedicated for Judaism and Zionism. Your attempt of belittling my thread as a conspiracy theory is laughable.

Hell, the biggest denomination in your country promotes for israel expansion as a part of their religious faith, deny this too.

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02 Aug 2014, 7:27 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

salad wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

Zionists (not "Jews" per se) have always sought power and control. They follow the Talmud and not the Torah. The Torah is where the Old Testament comes from. The Talmud is man-written code that emphasizes taking an active role in the destiny of the Jewish people.

To be fair, if you look at the history of how Jews have been treated in history by pretty much everyone, can you blame them for having a sect that seeks to ensure the Jewish people are so powerful that the injustices forced on them never happen again?

Africans have been through worse. Native Americans are living in reservations. Why don't the Natives get a homeland?? Why are Jews inherently better than natives?

Native Americans have the same rights to own land, have the rights to vote, and everything else white people has. Jews in the Ottoman empire (the closest thing there ever was to an actual Palestine) were second rate citizens in all Ottoman countries except Turkey. Do some research before you spew out crap.

And so the Muslim/Christian Arabs, Greeks and Armenians under the Ottoman rule, not just the Jews; all were second-rate citizens, only Turks were the first rate citizens in the empire.

There were several massacres of jews in the Ottoman empire, and a genocide of Armenians. Being an Arab in the Ottoman empire was almost as good as being a Turk.

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02 Aug 2014, 8:30 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

That doesn't mean that it isn't fake. Have you even tried searching around to verify the source of it, and even if it is real, would you try to find out if it's relevant to Israel's policies today? The very fact that it's being used by a conspiracy theory website downgrades the credibility of any claim that it represents any policy at all that Israel holds today.

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02 Aug 2014, 10:17 am

All six million Israelis building an empire to rule over 7.2 billion human beings..

This is the most ridiculous thing since that fiction: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion was published

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02 Aug 2014, 10:20 am

zer0netgain wrote:

The Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Babli) is the effective rule book fo Halachah (Jewish Law). It is the encapsulation of the Oral law or tradition. It is based on the Torah which is the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures. Basically it says how the 613 commandments given in the Torah are to be applied in particular circumstances.

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02 Aug 2014, 11:07 am

Add it to the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:C ... ing_Israel

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02 Aug 2014, 1:07 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

To be fair, if you look at the history of how Jews have been treated in history by pretty much everyone, can you blame them for having a sect that seeks to ensure the Jewish people are so powerful that the injustices forced on them never happen again?

Yes, you can. The Nazis used similar reasoning, that is almost how all genocides are rationalized. There is a good and evil, right and wrong. What Israel is doing cannot be justified, historical grievances don't justify modern barbarism.

The Israelis have made a two state solution impossible and they're committed to staying "Jewish state" so where does that leave the Palestinians?

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03 Aug 2014, 4:34 am

Kurgan wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

salad wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

Africans have been through worse. Native Americans are living in reservations. Why don't the Natives get a homeland?? Why are Jews inherently better than natives?

And so the Muslim/Christian Arabs, Greeks and Armenians under the Ottoman rule, not just the Jews; all were second-rate citizens, only Turks were the first rate citizens in the empire.

There were several massacres of jews in the Ottoman empire, and a genocide of Armenians. Being an Arab in the Ottoman empire was almost as good as being a Turk.

You sir know nothing of the Ottoman history, maybe weren't treated as bad as the armenians but they were treated as second class nevertheless and their lands suffered deprivation of development, the Ottoman empire was a "leech empire" - leeching all other states for the well-being of what's today is Turkey.

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04 Aug 2014, 10:28 am

Its doubtful that Israel actually seeks global domination. It probably has the same aspiration to political power that any other nation has. Indeed they have the 4th most powerful military and one of the most advanced intelligence agencies in the Mossad.

Israel is however militantly xenophobic and despite the objections that may well be levelled, they want to remain "ethnically pure". Converting to Judaism wont get you a pass into Israel, consider the fact that they sterilised Ethiopian Jews who had a legitimate claim to enter Israel.

The Israeli policy against the Palestinians starts to look more and more like systematic cleansing the more you examine it. Hamas are certainly not paragons of virtue, but Israel have literally destroyed Gazan fishing capabilities and consigned the population of Gaza to subsisting on aid. Israel shows a total and flagrant disregard for civilian life in fact and to prove this they have razed the infrastructure to the ground. Israel's policy goes beyond self defense, well well beyond. A two state solution is not in their best interest as it still means having muslims and the impure clamouring at their doorstep. Israeli officials have been caught on record stating that the Palestinians are cockroaches. Netanyaho himself referred to them as "Nothing". Israel is very very difficult to defend and is caught in a siege mentality which is understandable when you look at a map and realise that Israel is a western civilisation in the middle of a sea of idealogically hostile islamic nations.

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04 Aug 2014, 10:40 am

Ectryon wrote:

Converting to Judaism wont get you a pass into Israel, consider the fact that they sterilised Ethiopian Jews who had a legitimate claim to enter Israel.

No, they didn't.

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04 Aug 2014, 11:20 am

GGPViper wrote:

Ectryon wrote:

Converting to Judaism wont get you a pass into Israel, consider the fact that they sterilised Ethiopian Jews who had a legitimate claim to enter Israel.

No, they didn't.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 68800.html

the medical definition of sterilisation as given by Dorland's is:

Quote:

. any procedure by which an individual is made incapable of reproduction.

its perhaps implicit that this is not designed to be temporary. Depo provera is injected and lasts three months. If this were administered 4 times a year indefinitely it would qualify as sterilisation

The essence of the point is the same however. They ensured that the Ethiopians would not and could not have more "goy" kids

Last edited by Ectryon on 04 Aug 2014, 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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04 Aug 2014, 11:27 am

Ectryon wrote:

What Israel wants: For Arabs to stop bombing it.

That's pretty much it.

The only reason Israel expanded in '67 was that a good chunk of the Arab world attacked it at once. And they gave the land back; they also gave Gaza. This is not the mark of an expansionist empire. This isn't even Holland.

I guarantee it: accept Israel's right to exist, knock of the bombing and attacks, and you'll see peace. Will Israel accept policies that involve becoming majority non-Jewish, no, and that one you'll have to take up with the Western Christians and their antisemitism. There has to be one place on earth the Jews can go and not be persecuted by their own government. Unless you can persuade those Christians to scrub their own bigotry, in which case you will see Zionism vanish.

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