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blauSamstag
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27 Aug 2015, 10:28 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
There are christian faiths where your perceived piety is proportional to the grievousness of the sins of which you have supposedly repented.

Which is pretty twisted, imho.

And probably what this person was on about.

Sorry, lady. Not everybody is as sick as you are.


Yes but the whole point of the new testament is we are all born into a state of sin and Jesus forgives us so we can go to heaven. He died for the sins of mankind.

Then there's mankind's law where the "sins" are given grievousness depending on their nature. So in this life you suffer for your sins but the Christos gives you a better afterlife even if you messed up severely in this one. That is the meat of the New Testament.



Well, there's Matthew 12 - and remember this is J speaking:

Quote:
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


So clearly sinning against man and sinning against God are different, according to J.



You know how I interpret that? What He is saying is, the worst sin is to lose your spirituality. If you are not spiritual and just going through the motions, everything will backfire on you. You must be spiritual.



I disagree.

You think a spiritual person will never blaspheme against God? They can't all be Job.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Aug 2015, 10:13 am

blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
There are christian faiths where your perceived piety is proportional to the grievousness of the sins of which you have supposedly repented.

Which is pretty twisted, imho.

And probably what this person was on about.

Sorry, lady. Not everybody is as sick as you are.


Yes but the whole point of the new testament is we are all born into a state of sin and Jesus forgives us so we can go to heaven. He died for the sins of mankind.

Then there's mankind's law where the "sins" are given grievousness depending on their nature. So in this life you suffer for your sins but the Christos gives you a better afterlife even if you messed up severely in this one. That is the meat of the New Testament.



Well, there's Matthew 12 - and remember this is J speaking:

Quote:
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


So clearly sinning against man and sinning against God are different, according to J.



You know how I interpret that? What He is saying is, the worst sin is to lose your spirituality. If you are not spiritual and just going through the motions, everything will backfire on you. You must be spiritual.



I disagree.

You think a spiritual person will never blaspheme against God? They can't all be Job.


It's easier to discern who is spiritual and who isn't. The ones who are not tend to live their own hell. Spirituality is very important.



blauSamstag
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28 Aug 2015, 12:23 pm

Regardless, the passage states clearly that if you speak ill against a person, it can be forgiven. But if you speak ill against god, it won't be.

This is a clear distinction between two sins as having different gravity, as stated by J of N.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Aug 2015, 12:29 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Regardless, the passage states clearly that if you speak ill against a person, it can be forgiven. But if you speak ill against god, it won't be.

This is a clear distinction between two sins as having different gravity, as stated by J of N.



It says against the "holy spirit." That is not quite the same as God, just the spiritual component of God. It is the same as saying, if you condemn spirituality, you will pay for it and that could be considered true. People without spirituality tend to suffer more. You must try to develop your spirituality.



blauSamstag
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28 Aug 2015, 1:52 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Regardless, the passage states clearly that if you speak ill against a person, it can be forgiven. But if you speak ill against god, it won't be.

This is a clear distinction between two sins as having different gravity, as stated by J of N.



It says against the "holy spirit." That is not quite the same as God, just the spiritual component of God. It is the same as saying, if you condemn spirituality, you will pay for it and that could be considered true. People without spirituality tend to suffer more. You must try to develop your spirituality.



In the original greek the phrase is "pneumatos tou hagiou" so yes the literal translation is "holy spirit" but in context it is clear that reference is being made to an entity.

Foregoing a discussion on the nature of trinity, i think it is still clear that the relative gravity of two sins are being compared.

And what about the passage from the 1st epistle of John the Evangelist referring to sins unto death (aka deadly sins) and sins not unto death?

The really interesting about sin in the NT is that the greek has so many different words that get translated to "sin".



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Aug 2015, 3:17 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Regardless, the passage states clearly that if you speak ill against a person, it can be forgiven. But if you speak ill against god, it won't be.

This is a clear distinction between two sins as having different gravity, as stated by J of N.



It says against the "holy spirit." That is not quite the same as God, just the spiritual component of God. It is the same as saying, if you condemn spirituality, you will pay for it and that could be considered true. People without spirituality tend to suffer more. You must try to develop your spirituality.



In the original greek the phrase is "pneumatos tou hagiou" so yes the literal translation is "holy spirit" but in context it is clear that reference is being made to an entity.

Foregoing a discussion on the nature of trinity, i think it is still clear that the relative gravity of two sins are being compared.

And what about the passage from the 1st epistle of John the Evangelist referring to sins unto death (aka deadly sins) and sins not unto death?

The really interesting about sin in the NT is that the greek has so many different words that get translated to "sin".

It's the spirit which animates the body and gives life only it is given by God. It suggests an inner connection the the holy spirit is necessary to live. It's all about your connection. Connection is what will carry you through. If you are not connected, you will not be so wise and able to make the best determinations about your life. You will be restless and depressed when you should be content. It helps you figure out who you are, too, when you are in tune with the spiritual dimensions of your purpose in life. Everyone's heard the phrase God's purpose for your life. Well, that's a part of knowing who you are and what you will be happiest doing.

If you don't have it, you will be weak and will just go through the motions without feeling like you have it. In other words, it will not help you. So, you must build your own personal connection with spirit so it fills you and causes you to be wise and at peace. It can help you overcome obstacles in life.

It's personal and any old testament mystic knows you will never find this connection in a book. You have to nurture it through introspection and connecting with The Unseen, and to not fear everything. You must open yourself to the possibility of the spiritual and to think about what it best for your life because the spirit will guide you.



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28 Aug 2015, 4:07 pm

Just believe what ever makes you feel good. With 41,000 xian denominations that's pretty much the accepted way.


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blauSamstag
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28 Aug 2015, 7:20 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Regardless, the passage states clearly that if you speak ill against a person, it can be forgiven. But if you speak ill against god, it won't be.

This is a clear distinction between two sins as having different gravity, as stated by J of N.



It says against the "holy spirit." That is not quite the same as God, just the spiritual component of God. It is the same as saying, if you condemn spirituality, you will pay for it and that could be considered true. People without spirituality tend to suffer more. You must try to develop your spirituality.



In the original greek the phrase is "pneumatos tou hagiou" so yes the literal translation is "holy spirit" but in context it is clear that reference is being made to an entity.

Foregoing a discussion on the nature of trinity, i think it is still clear that the relative gravity of two sins are being compared.

And what about the passage from the 1st epistle of John the Evangelist referring to sins unto death (aka deadly sins) and sins not unto death?

The really interesting about sin in the NT is that the greek has so many different words that get translated to "sin".

It's the spirit which animates the body and gives life only it is given by God. It suggests an inner connection the the holy spirit is necessary to live. It's all about your connection. Connection is what will carry you through. If you are not connected, you will not be so wise and able to make the best determinations about your life. You will be restless and depressed when you should be content. It helps you figure out who you are, too, when you are in tune with the spiritual dimensions of your purpose in life. Everyone's heard the phrase God's purpose for your life. Well, that's a part of knowing who you are and what you will be happiest doing.

If you don't have it, you will be weak and will just go through the motions without feeling like you have it. In other words, it will not help you. So, you must build your own personal connection with spirit so it fills you and causes you to be wise and at peace. It can help you overcome obstacles in life.

It's personal and any old testament mystic knows you will never find this connection in a book. You have to nurture it through introspection and connecting with The Unseen, and to not fear everything. You must open yourself to the possibility of the spiritual and to think about what it best for your life because the spirit will guide you.


Fine.

But this is a thread about differentiation of the relative gravity of sins, right?



blauSamstag
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28 Aug 2015, 7:21 pm

1401b wrote:
Just believe what ever makes you feel good. With 41,000 xian denominations that's pretty much the accepted way.


Works great for jihadis, too!



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28 Aug 2015, 9:54 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
oops This wasn't supposed to be posted here. Lol. Sorry guys.


Still, gotta give WP folk credit for having a far more adult, respectful, constructive conversation on the matter than most of the Internet...


Haha I should have deleted that one post but I was so embarrassed I made the mistake of posting it here. It was supposed to go in an email which this window resembles somewhat, but I had several windows going at once. I got flustered at my error and edited the post as soon as I realize it. Now that I'm thinking more clearly, I wish I would have just deleted it .


Looks like the topic/conversation has gained a life of it's own. And so far it appears to be a healthy, constructive conversation. Many people enjoy such things and you have brought them some little amount of happiness; that's a good thing, wouldn't you say?


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01 Sep 2015, 10:17 pm

Sorry, my bad I gave him two black eyes because hes an a**hole then I set his beard on fire then after that I summoned a genie and wished him away forever so he no longer exists, you can thank me later and be yourself and forever free and no longer a mindless thrall to a book of fairy tales.


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