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How The Donald Can Solve The Immigrant Problem Like a Pro

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DarthMetaKnight
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24 Sep 2016, 6:50 pm

skysaw wrote:
I’m a fascist, and these talking points are familiar to me too. I agree with some of them, but have some issues with the way you’ve lumped them together-

1. It is actually possible to end/reduce foreign interventions and put greater restrictions on immigration. It’s not an either/or choice.
2. Trump is (according to his rhetoric) far more opposed to globalisation and foreign interventions than Hilary Clinton, Obama or GW Bush, so to use America’s foreign misadventures to criticise Trump (if that’s what you are doing) is a bit bizarre. But then it’s not clear who you are really addressing: Trump himself, regular ‘conservative’ voters who support him, or mainstream ‘conservative’ politicians and pundits who hate him?

Agree with you about Israel as far as it goes though. As far as I am concerned they don’t deserve a single cent anyway, and America’s recent Middle Eastern misadventures have far more to do with America’s Israel lobby than they do with oil companies.


Donald Trump is a flip-flopper. He switches between non-interventionism and being "the most militaristic person ever".
If he gets elected, I hope he flips the right way.


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Jacoby
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24 Sep 2016, 8:52 pm

The wall serves a purpose, it's been promised for 30 years, it's our country's sovereign right to enforce it's borders just as Mexico does with the building of a wall on their southern border. Mexico has facilitated the movement of illegal immigrants thru their country, look at how they treat them in Mexico compared to here and what their laws are and then you might come away thinking Trump isn't that extreme.

Trump's position now is to not allow immigration from countries "compromised by terrorism" and extreme vetting.



DarthMetaKnight
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24 Sep 2016, 9:04 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Be more specific. Where do you want the US to pull out of? Where do you want them to stop funding, training and arming who?

For example, "I'd like the US to stop providing intelligence to the Hadi government in Yemen".


Why not just bring all the troops home?

That way we won't be provoking or radicalizing the Muslims anymore. The refugee crisis will end. We can finally put Lockheed Martin and ExxonMobil on trial for crimes against humanity.


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Mootoo
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24 Sep 2016, 9:10 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The wall serves a purpose, it's been promised for 30 years, it's our country's sovereign right to enforce its borders just as Mexico does with the building of a wall on their southern border.


Wasn't a fence installed by Bush that even Texans objected to? Apparently, they also had the mentality to let animals go extinct as long as they have their gate, which apparently failed, as I don't hear many singing its glories.
ps. possessive has no apostrophes & have some waffles:



The_Walrus
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25 Sep 2016, 10:33 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Be more specific. Where do you want the US to pull out of? Where do you want them to stop funding, training and arming who?

For example, "I'd like the US to stop providing intelligence to the Hadi government in Yemen".


Why not just bring all the troops home?

That way we won't be provoking or radicalizing the Muslims anymore. The refugee crisis will end. We can finally put Lockheed Martin and ExxonMobil on trial for crimes against humanity.

A few reasons:

1. America is not currently at war. There aren't any troops to "bring home" except for ones in peacekeeping roles.
2. Many of the places where America is providing support (not necessarily troops) could experience a major downturn without American support. For example, what do you think would happen in Yemen?
3. As I already explained, military presence doesn't provoke or radicalise "the Muslims". The existing extremists do that, and they're just as happy to use Western inaction to get young people stoked up.



DarthMetaKnight
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25 Sep 2016, 1:38 pm

How effective are peace troops? We might just be wasting money.


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N8solano
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01 Oct 2016, 6:03 pm

I saw an interview with Donald Trump saying that he wants to build a wall to stop the terrorists.

And the interviewer stated that not one terrorist went through the border. They ALL had visa.

Then, Donald said "But they could!"

Doesn't sound like he does his research or prepares before a speech.



Jacoby
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01 Oct 2016, 6:43 pm

He's not wrong that it's possible, they've caught a number crossers from middle eastern countries in the last couple years. They caught a few from Syria and Afghanistan down in Nogales area a while ago, doesn't mean they're terrorists but it is a potential unmonitored point of entry. There have also had similar attempted crossings in Texas.



N8solano
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01 Oct 2016, 7:10 pm

You are correct. But the point is that he didn't know enough to mention what you just mentioned. He merely described a "what if" scenario, which seemed inappropriate at the time.



skysaw
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02 Oct 2016, 3:59 pm

It is frankly insane to say that a country like America couldn't properly manage to build a wall on its border, or that there is anything extreme about her doing so, or that it wouldn't make any difference to the numbers of illegal immigrants entering the country. The fact that so many people repeat this stuff just because they see authority figures in the media saying it just goes to show how gullible the average voter really is.



B19
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02 Oct 2016, 4:08 pm

The walls already exist don't they?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2 ... es_barrier



Jacoby
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02 Oct 2016, 4:25 pm

B19 wrote:
The walls already exist don't they?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2 ... es_barrier


It's insufficient and does not come close to covering our entire 2000 mile border. If there is an uncompleted wall already in use then what is so controversial about completing it? This is something that has literally been promised for like 30 years now. These walls are basically where they expect people to cross but the cartels make an effort to cross over the most desolate hard to cross terrain to stay away from detection efforts and other people in general. There is a lot of drug and human trafficking thru Indian reservation territory in Arizona which covers a decent portion of our border, these cartels transversing the mountains and deserts of southern Arizona in the dead of night in heavily armed platoons with advanced hi-tech surveillance. A lot of people disappear in these deserts and mountain, I am almost sure that some of these unfortunate people crossed paths with these criminal aliens.



B19
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02 Oct 2016, 4:28 pm

No walls will stop the cartels importing drugs. They have many other means, and already use them.

This link is the only clear headed, carefully reasoned argument I have found in the debate concerning "the immigration problem". It would be great to read cool headed, cogent thought from all sides of this debate. The charged political rhetoric is more heat than light, bring on the cool voices of reasoned and informed contemplation (whatever their political views):

http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/c ... ext=facpub