Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrah

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friedmacguffins
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25 Nov 2016, 12:50 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
I am addressing it to any competing, religious view, in general, but to the OP, in particular.

Can your faith result in world war.


Adamantium wrote:
An honest and informed observer must answer "yes" regardless of the details of their faith. Given the right circumstances, mass violence is something we do.


Do jihadists only attack Christians and Jews, or have others been martyred for their faith?

Do jihadists only lay claim to Jerusalem, which they call the 'furthest outpost,' or could WWIII be caused over any ground, for instance, Spain?

Their faith formally recognizes only two kinds of territory, called the zone (or house) of war, or of submission. Is your house Islamist?



Barchan
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25 Nov 2016, 1:06 pm

Adamantium wrote:
You blame Jews for the actions of Israel. This is like people finding you personally guilty for the crimes of ISIS.

Like I said, I'm not going to blame an entire race, but I'm also not going to gloss over the obvious racial power dynamics at work here. Israeli Jews benefit from a system that explicitly privileges Jews above non-Jews. Israel was founded on the racist view that Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine, by virtue of their ancestry (which is really just a more polite way of saying race), by providence of God. Jewish superiority is enshrined in their constitution. The immigration customs even give an automatic free pass to anyone who can claim at least 3/4 Jewish ancestry. Israel have been put on human rights watch-lists for practicing eugenics against non-Jewish citizens! Like, remember when the USA had laws like that? It was called Jim Crow and everyone pretty much agrees it was the darkest time in recent US history. If it can be said that white Americans have white privilege (and it can), then we also have to be willing to tackle the subject of Jewish privilege in regards to Israeli geopolitics.

Adamantium wrote:
Who has killed more Muslims in the middle east in the last century, Jews or other Muslims?

It's not a contest. :?



Adamantium
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25 Nov 2016, 1:18 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
I am addressing it to any competing, religious view, in general, but to the OP, in particular.

Can your faith result in world war.


Adamantium wrote:
An honest and informed observer must answer "yes" regardless of the details of their faith. Given the right circumstances, mass violence is something we do.


Do jihadists only attack Christians and Jews, or have others been martyred for their faith?

Do jihadists only lay claim to Jerusalem, which they call the 'furthest outpost,' or could WWIII be caused over any ground, for instance, Spain?

Their faith formally recognizes only two kinds of territory, called the zone (or house) of war, or of submission. Is your house Islamist?


World Wars are a repeated occurrence. 100% of historical world wars were not caused by Islam or any other faith, though religious intolerance (antisemitism) was a powerful motivating factor in one (non-muslim)party to one of the world wars.

Islamist extremists have been documented attacking members of many other faiths, notably in the religiously diverse regions of south asia.

Islamists could start World War 3 over any region, just as non-Islamists could start World War 3 in any region of conflict where great powers interact such as the Europe, the Middle East, East Asia and Africa.

The warlike propensity of Islamists seems like a variation on a theme common to the Human species.


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Adamantium
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25 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm

Barchan wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
You blame Jews for the actions of Israel. This is like people finding you personally guilty for the crimes of ISIS.

Like I said, I'm not going to blame an entire race, but I'm also not going to gloss over the obvious racial power dynamics at work here. Israeli Jews benefit from a system that explicitly privileges Jews above non-Jews. Israel was founded on the racist view that Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine, by virtue of their ancestry (which is really just a more polite way of saying race), by providence of God. Jewish superiority is enshrined in their constitution. The immigration customs even give an automatic free pass to anyone who can claim at least 3/4 Jewish ancestry. Israel have been put on human rights watch-lists for practicing eugenics against non-Jewish citizens! Like, remember when the USA had laws like that? It was called Jim Crow and everyone pretty much agrees it was the darkest time in recent US history. If it can be said that white Americans have white privilege (and it can), then we also have to be willing to tackle the subject of Jewish privilege in regards to Israeli geopolitics.

Adamantium wrote:
Who has killed more Muslims in the middle east in the last century, Jews or other Muslims?

It's not a contest. :?

And yet every justification you provide for the bigotry you've voiced says that it is. Keep telling yourself that your "i've never met one" is not immoral because you win on points. You get Extra Credit in the contest for the Jim Crow reference.

Except that you are correct, it's not a contest and the hypocrisy of the statements you made about Jews in this thread is plain to see.

I suspect that if you want to be a decent human being you must identify as human first and consider any religious, national or ethnic identity as secondary to that. This seems to be an area that many people of all backgrounds have difficulty with.


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friedmacguffins
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25 Nov 2016, 1:39 pm

In the here-and-now, Islam lays claim to all unconquered land, and particularly that, which it has formerly conquered.

It has notably oppressed Buddhism, Yazidism, Egyptian and Assyrian religions, secularism, and modest, Western fashion.

Pigeon keepers were told the birds were offensive, for the sight of their genitals, which, in birds, are internal.

Is it because of loxism?



Adamantium
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25 Nov 2016, 1:44 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
In the here-and-now, Islam lays claim to all unconquered land, and particularly that, which it has formerly conquered.

It has notably oppressed Buddhism, Yazidism, Egyptian and Assyrian religions, secularism, and modest, Western fashion.

Pigeon keepers were told the birds were offensive, for the sight of their genitals, which, in birds, are internal.

Is it because of loxism?


You conflate Islam and Islamism in a misleading way.


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andrethemoogle
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25 Nov 2016, 2:15 pm

Barchan wrote:
Every country in the region is hostile to Israel because we've seen how Israel treats those weaker than itself. Israeli soldiers force their way into other countries, and brand a "terrorist" anyone who resists the intrusion. You can say that Islam has a terror problem, but there are two sides to the story; honestly there was never any terror problem before Israel started kicking in people's doors.


No terror problem before Israel? You have to be joking. What about prior to the Crusades? Hell, even the formation of the religion?

How many Jewish and Christian terror attacks have there been to Islamic terror attacks? The number is not comparable. When the very religion itself calls to kill non-believers, there is your issue. Defending it and saying "there are two sides to the story" doesn't excuse the vile things Islam does. ISIS are Islamic fundamentalists, literally. They follow every word in that damn book to a tee, and the rest of the world says they do not represent Islam, when they represent it in it's original form.



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25 Nov 2016, 2:56 pm

Back to the original topic.

The OP is saying that both the Jews and his brand of Christianity believe in the Golden Rule. Therefore that makes his brand of Christianity better than other brands of Christianity, and better than Islam.

But all major religions believe in the Golden Rule:Abrahamic, as well as eastern religions (Confucian, Buddhist, etc).

What Hillel said about the Talmud could also be said of Confucianism, or of Christianity, or about whatever.

So the OP's statement doesn't make any sense.

He is also saying "you all hate us because you aint us", and he then demands that we prove that statement wrong.

That is not just starting a discussion. It does verge on trolling IMHO.



Barchan
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25 Nov 2016, 3:24 pm

Adamantium wrote:
And yet every justification you provide for the bigotry you've voiced says that it is. Keep telling yourself that your "i've never met one" is not immoral because you win on points. You get Extra Credit in the contest for the Jim Crow reference.

It's a fact that Israeli Jews engage in racist disenfranchisement of their non-Jewish citizens. It's not "bigotry" to point this out; in my opinion it would be bigoted to ignore it.

Adamantium wrote:
I suspect that if you want to be a decent human being you must identify as human first and consider any religious, national or ethnic identity as secondary to that. This seems to be an area that many people of all backgrounds have difficulty with.

#AllLivesMatter

andrethemoogle wrote:
ISIS are Islamic fundamentalists, literally. They follow every word in that damn book to a tee, and the rest of the world says they do not represent Islam, when they represent it in it's original form.

ISIS are not a government organization. They are not recognized as a legitimate state by any international body, so comparing them to the racist and militaristic Israeli state is rather missing the point.

And the only people who claim ISIS represent "true Islam" are ISIS themselves, and islamophobes.
So, you may actually have more in common with an ISIS goon than I do =p



andrethemoogle
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25 Nov 2016, 3:29 pm

Did I say you have anything in common with ISIS? No, I did not, so don't you dare get on me with the rhetoric that I have more in common with them when I have been THREATENED by a sympathizer for them on this forum before.

Islamophobia would mean a fear of Muslims, which I do not have. It's a blanket BS statement to put on anyone who disagrees with Islam (which the liberal media is too cowardly to criticize in this day and age). Islam is not a race. It is an religion that can and will be criticized. I don't go psychotic when someone criticizes my religion (Catholicism) or posts a picture of Jesus.



Barchan
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25 Nov 2016, 3:37 pm

andrethemoogle wrote:
Did I say you have anything in common with ISIS? No, I did not, so don't you dare get on me with the rhetoric that I have more in common with them when I have been THREATENED by a sympathizer for them on this forum before.

andrethemoogle wrote:
Did I say you have anything in common with ISIS? No, I did not, so don't you dare get on me

andrethemoogle wrote:
don't you dare

andrethemoogle wrote:
don't you dare

andrethemoogle wrote:
don't

andrethemoogle wrote:
you

andrethemoogle wrote:
dare

WHAT ??? omg, I literally can not even with the bad vibes in this thread right now. I'm going to go play Pokemon or something. F**** this thread, Barchan out.



andrethemoogle
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25 Nov 2016, 3:42 pm

So when it comes to criticizing other religions and beliefs you will be up for it, but when it comes to your own you will back out? Okay then.

Don't say that someone has something in common with an ISIS member and expect them not to respond in a defensive manner.



Barchan
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25 Nov 2016, 3:58 pm

andrethemoogle wrote:
So when it comes to criticizing other religions and beliefs you will be up for it, but when it comes to your own you will back out? Okay then.

I don't have a problem with your criticism of Islam or Islamism. You're entitled to your views. It's your confrontational and borderline-threatening tone that's troubling me.



andrethemoogle
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25 Nov 2016, 4:01 pm

Barchan wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
So when it comes to criticizing other religions and beliefs you will be up for it, but when it comes to your own you will back out? Okay then.

I don't have a problem with your criticism of Islam or Islamism. You're entitled to your views. It's your confrontational and borderline-threatening tone that's troubling me.


How am I threatening you? All I said was "Don't you dare". Do not put me in the same category as some useless sack of skin in ISIS.

And confrontational? How?



Grischa
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25 Nov 2016, 4:26 pm

What I would like to do - travelling the Middle East. Along the Euphratus, following it down south, along beautifull sceneries with palm trees, ancient cites.
Never going to happen, I'm afraid, as long as there's ideological warfare

I'm not a muslim, but reading the posts I have to say that I agree most with Barchan



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26 Nov 2016, 1:07 am

Barchan wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
And yet every justification you provide for the bigotry you've voiced says that it is. Keep telling yourself that your "i've never met one" is not immoral because you win on points. You get Extra Credit in the contest for the Jim Crow reference.

It's a fact that Israeli Jews engage in racist disenfranchisement of their non-Jewish citizens. It's not "bigotry" to point this out; in my opinion it would be bigoted to ignore it.


It's true that the some of the laws of Israel and some Israeli Jews discriminate against non-Jewish citizens. It's ignorant bigotry to suggest that all Israeli Jews endorse this discrimination.

What you have done in this thread is worse. You accuse all Jews of racism and then put the fig leaf of a weak disclaimer over your bigotry, just as Trump smeared all Mexican immigrants with outrageous lies and then covered his hate speech with "some I assume are good people."

You don't like it when people do it to Muslims, but you have no compunction about writing garbage about Jews.

It's an ugly thing.


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