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On punching Nazis

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0_equals_true
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30 Jan 2017, 6:25 pm

He was punched but a person in a typical "black bloc" uniform. Which is most associated with anarchists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc

I have no idea if that was an anarchist though.

Lauren Southern was recently called out for lazy journalism for implying that black bloc were typical anti-trump supporters, when they did a similar protest against Obama, and are anti-government and elections.



beneficii
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30 Jan 2017, 6:29 pm

News flash to all participants: Neither the guy in the OP video nor I advocates violence.

This back and forth here is ridiculous. Only 0_equals_true makes me think they maybe watched the video (though I'm still not quite sure because they seemed to say they weren't if t1j incites violence--he doesn't btw). Barchan, might have too.

It's this kind of lazy assumption making that enables fake news to get around the way that it has.


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30 Jan 2017, 6:38 pm

Jacoby wrote:
You literally have no idea what you are talking about right now

That's exactly what you're doing though. You're defending Richard Spencer, a neo Nazi. You can try to twist it however you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.


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Jacoby
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30 Jan 2017, 6:44 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
You literally have no idea what you are talking about right now

That's exactly what you're doing though. You're defending Richard Spencer, a neo Nazi. You can try to twist it however you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.


BS, if you think sucker punching people is okay because you dislike what they believe then you are part of the problem. "Dude, they're Nazis" isn't an intellectual response, it's rationalization for violence. If that is what you call 'no platforming' then how would that term turned around on you? Do you understand the dangers of that?



lidsmichelle
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30 Jan 2017, 6:48 pm

Jacoby wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
You literally have no idea what you are talking about right now

That's exactly what you're doing though. You're defending Richard Spencer, a neo Nazi. You can try to twist it however you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.


BS, if you think sucker punching people is okay because you dislike what they believe then you are part of the problem. "Dude, they're Nazis" isn't an intellectual response, it's rationalization for violence. If that is what you call 'no platforming' then how would that term turned around on you? Do you understand the dangers of that?

Are you like lacking in some mental capacity? I ask this because there is something very morally wrong with advocating for s**t like ethnic cleansing. If someone punches me for advocating for equal rights based on race then they are the problem. Neo Nazis advocate horrible things so you cannot pretend it is the same thing. Well I mean you can, you clearly do. It appears to be your hobby.


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30 Jan 2017, 6:52 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Should somebody be able to punch you in the face for believing in something they don't like?
Nobody should be attacking anybody period, that is what fascism is

The guy is an idiot given to much attention by the mainstream media which is responsible for any notoriety that he has, saying that it's still not okay to punch him the face.

Whatever happened to the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?


Previously Jacoby wrote :
Quote:
(Emphasis mine)
doing Nazi salutes, turns out some people are offended by that at a Trump rally. This idiot got what he deserved.
...
If someone was beat up dressed as KKK or a Nazi at a Bernie or Hillary rally people would be applauding them and condemning the idiot dressed up causing trouble. These people are terrorists

Linkage : https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=308450&start=15#p7059491



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30 Jan 2017, 6:58 pm

Why'd you cut out the next part? Seems fitting for this conversation.

"Shutting down your opponent is not freedom of speech or anything, that is what FASCISTS do. Trump isn't trying to shut anyone up that's exactly what these people are trying to do. It will backfire and help Trump, as most of the left wing idiocy and hand wringing does."


Also know now in retrospect that those people were literally paid by the Hillary campaign to attack people at Trump rallies, not following the logic of bringing that up since it's a false equivalence.

If Nazis were attacking you then by all means you justified to respond in kind but that's not what this guy was doing and even calling him a Nazi is a mischaracterization. What was he doing that was provoking or threatening? Giving an interview on the side of the street?

Keep your hands to yourself, is that too much to ask?



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30 Jan 2017, 7:07 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
lidsmichelle wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
You literally have no idea what you are talking about right now

That's exactly what you're doing though. You're defending Richard Spencer, a neo Nazi. You can try to twist it however you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.


BS, if you think sucker punching people is okay because you dislike what they believe then you are part of the problem. "Dude, they're Nazis" isn't an intellectual response, it's rationalization for violence. If that is what you call 'no platforming' then how would that term turned around on you? Do you understand the dangers of that?

Are you like lacking in some mental capacity? I ask this because there is something very morally wrong with advocating for s**t like ethnic cleansing. If someone punches me for advocating for equal rights based on race then they are the problem. Neo Nazis advocate horrible things so you cannot pretend it is the same thing. Well I mean you can, you clearly do. It appears to be your hobby.


t1j discusses people like Jacoby, and how there is a group of people who seem determined to completely destroy society's values and the knowledge gained from our experience with things like racism. It's like they want to create this kind of moral relativity and to get rid of what has guided us to do the right thing.

I'm not sure what motivates people like this. Maybe teenage rebellion, but 24 is way too old for that.

Either way, one of their own, Stephen Bannon, is now one of the most powerful people in the country.


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30 Jan 2017, 7:13 pm

I'm the one experiencing 'teenage rebellion' by saying its wrong to don a mask and sucker punch somebody in the face for things they have said you don't like? Yeah okay, makes a lot of sense. You're totally the mature one here. :roll: You people are against democracy and intolerant of any differing viewpoints, you bend over backwards to justify violence and throwing a fit because things aren't going the way you wanted them to. The Golden Rule, learn it!



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30 Jan 2017, 7:19 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I'm the one experiencing 'teenage rebellion' by saying its wrong to don a mask and sucker punch somebody in the face for things they have said you don't like? Yeah okay, makes a lot of sense. You're totally the mature one here. :roll: You people are against democracy and intolerant of any differing viewpoints, you bend over backwards to justify violence and throwing a fit because things aren't going the way you wanted them to. The Golden Rule, learn it!


I've said it before and I'll say it again: You are one of the most dishonest posters I have ever come across.


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Jacoby
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30 Jan 2017, 7:25 pm

Why because I don't agree with you?

Saying it's not okay to be violent is not a controversial opinion, you are not allowed to attack people. Period.



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30 Jan 2017, 7:26 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Whatever defend nazis all you like...


Do you honestly not understand the difference between defending Nazis and defending the rights of people not to be violently attacked for saying things others deem offensive?


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30 Jan 2017, 7:29 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Why'd you cut out the next part? Seems fitting for this conversation.


I copied the parts relevant to the point I was making, and provided a link to the remainder of the post and topic.

Jacoby wrote:
Keep your hands to yourself, is that too much to ask?


You were the one insisting he "got what he deserved" for offending others.

Personally I prefer it when people are civilised. I have no fondness for violence, be it left or right wing in origin.
But if you think it's OK to punch and kick a guy for holding an anti-trump protest sign at a Trump rally then you lose credibility when you complain about this.



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30 Jan 2017, 7:30 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:
That's exactly what you're doing though. You're defending Richard Spencer, a neo Nazi. You can try to twist it however you want, but that's exactly what you're doing.


Like me, he's not defending Richard Spencer or his beliefs, he's defending the rights of anyone to express an opinion free from the threat of violence.


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30 Jan 2017, 7:32 pm

SpiceWolf wrote:
But if you think it's OK to punch and kick a guy for holding an anti-trump protest sign at a Trump rally then you lose credibility when you complain about this.


Imperfect though the messenger is, that shouldn't detract from the rightness of the message in this case.


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30 Jan 2017, 7:39 pm

SpiceWolf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Why'd you cut out the next part? Seems fitting for this conversation.


I copied the parts relevant to the point I was making, and provided a link to the remainder of the post and topic.

Jacoby wrote:
Keep your hands to yourself, is that too much to ask?


You were the one insisting he "got what he deserved" for offending others.

Personally I prefer it when people are civilised. I have no fondness for violence, be it left or right wing in origin.
But if you think it's OK to punch and kick a guy for holding an anti-trump protest sign at a Trump rally then you lose credibility when you complain about this.


That's not what that guy was doing, it's not the same. If this Richard Spencer guy dressed up in Nazi regalia and was trying to shut down a Bernie rally getting into people's faces or 'bird dogging' as we learned from the Hillary campaign then it would be a different story but this guy is just standing on the side of the street and in the video I watched which is the only time I've heard this guy speak he's denying being a Neonazi or a member of the Klan and I imagine that's probably the same for a lot of people.

What makes this idea of 'no platforming' even more idiotic is that the left wing media is the one that actually gave this guy any platform or notoriety to speak and by attacking you give even bigger platform.