Are human beings capable of peaceful coexistence?

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GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 11:50 am

Daniel89 wrote:
Throughout history the upper classes have made the lower classes fight each other. The lower classes had no desire for war and not much to gain from it.

There will always be conflict because at the end of the day we are just animals.


It seems that the less religious nations are a lot more peaceful than where religion is more prominent.

Religions are more war mongering than the non-religious nations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

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DL



GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 11:52 am

The Witness wrote:
Over our history, many things have changed, but there has always been one constant: War.

I'm starting to believe that humans are just incapable of meaningful peace. Is it one of our flaws as a species? Can we change?

I think we're doomed by our arrogance and selfishness, but I'm curious as to what other's thoughts are.


I am more optimistic as religions are on their way out of our social contracts.

Have a look at the links I put just above.

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GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 11:56 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think it can happen while people always have to be “right.” People often think that the have the only “right” religion, government, or political leader. Until we can respect each other’s differences and evolve a higher sense of morality (that’s not from some archaic religion), it’s not going to happen.


How do you show respect to religions and their ideologies, like Christianity and Islam, when they are so morraly wrong?

Both religions, for instance, are slave holding ideologies that has become homophobic and misogynous religions.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

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GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 12:00 pm

Chronos wrote:
The Witness wrote:
Over our history, many things have changed, but there has always been one constant: War.

I'm starting to believe that humans are just incapable of meaningful peace. Is it one of our flaws as a species? Can we change?

I think we're doomed by our arrogance and selfishness, but I'm curious as to what other's thoughts are.


No.

But it is not a flaw of our species. It is merely a way of our species. Perhaps we will evolve away from that someday but consider a scenario.

A human like species that never wages war. Species 1001. Suppose this species consisted of two groups, group A and group B, within an hours walk of each other. Each group manages to grow just enough food to make it through the year. There is climate change that results in crop failure. Group A has just enough for their population to survive until the next year if it rains. But all of group B's crop has failed.

Now what species on Earth is going to voluntarily sit back and starve to death? None. Every single species on this planet that is active in It's pursuit of food is going to fight for it if they are starving.

For group B to sit there and perish voluntarily on a large scale, species 1001 would have to be an unusual species indeed, because it would have to lack the instinct of both self preservation and preservation of it's children.

Maybe group A and B are not seperate groups. Maybe they are the same group. Maybe they all live in the same city but there is still only enough food for half of them. How will they handle this?


We all, by instinct, strive to be the fittest and that includes competition as a major part of our evolution.

You seem to want to take competition out of our survival strategy.

Do you really think that to be a good idea?

Without competition, how would we recognize the fittest?

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TwilightPrincess
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08 Aug 2018, 12:03 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think it can happen while people always have to be “right.” People often think that the have the only “right” religion, government, or political leader. Until we can respect each other’s differences and evolve a higher sense of morality (that’s not from some archaic religion), it’s not going to happen.


How do you show respect to religions and their ideologies, like Christianity and Islam, when they are so morraly wrong?

Both religions, for instance, are slave holding ideologies that has become homophobic and misogynous religions.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

Regards
DL


I don’t like these ideologies myself, but they’re going to be around for awhile. Trying to treat these groups respectfully is better than fighting.


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GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 12:04 pm

Cash__ wrote:
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Are human beings capable of peaceful coexistence?


No. I present the whole of human history as evidence.


Hmm. You ignore that for 20,000 years before our Gods of war were created by us, that we lived in relative peace under Goddess worship.

Men forgetting their first duty to mankind, women and children being above men, is what has cause most of the wars we have been gifted to by immoral religions like Christianity and Islam.

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kraftiekortie
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08 Aug 2018, 12:05 pm

One doesn't have to "respect" the ideology. One should, however, respect the people who follow these ideologies.

Those people didn't create the ideologies; they only follow them.

The way to relate to them is to educate them, rather than berate them.



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08 Aug 2018, 12:11 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think it can happen while people always have to be “right.” People often think that the have the only “right” religion, government, or political leader. Until we can respect each other’s differences and evolve a higher sense of morality (that’s not from some archaic religion), it’s not going to happen.


How do you show respect to religions and their ideologies, like Christianity and Islam, when they are so morraly wrong?

Both religions, for instance, are slave holding ideologies that has become homophobic and misogynous religions.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

Regards
DL


I don’t like these ideologies myself, but they’re going to be around for awhile. Trying to treat these groups respectfully is better than fighting.


I did not disagree with you.

I repeat my question.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

Will you tell the homophobe and misogynous that you respect their positions when you cannot honestly do so?

I can try all I like to love the sinner and hate the sin but, the rapist raping my wife will know my hate when he dies or I have the bastard incarcerated.

There is a time for hate and if you do not pick your times then you are not a moral person.

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DL



kraftiekortie
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08 Aug 2018, 12:12 pm

Respect the person, not the ideology you find odious.



GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 12:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
One doesn't have to "respect" the ideology. One should, however, respect the people who follow these ideologies.

Those people didn't create the ideologies; they only follow them.

The way to relate to them is to educate them, rather than berate them.


Laudable, but most theists will say that your education is the one that needs improvement.

You cannot argue with a man whose God is a genocidal son murderer who they somehow see as good.

You forget the vile double moral standard that theists must use to forgive their gods for what they condemn in man.

Like the murder and torture of babies.

The reason and logic you use is not what they use. They use the faith of fools.

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08 Aug 2018, 12:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Respect the person, not the ideology you find odious.


Try that when you find a man raping your wife.

The ideology is expressed by people and they are the ones you should hate. They keep the vile ideology alive.

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08 Aug 2018, 12:20 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Are we ever satisfied?

That seems to be root our "evil".


The fittest humans are never satisfied till recognized for their fitness.

You cannot take competition out of any animals evolution. if you do, your population will stagnate and likely go extinct.

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08 Aug 2018, 12:24 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Are we ever satisfied?

That seems to be root our "evil".


The root of all evil is mankind itself. Most humans are born psychopaths.

That's the cause of wars and other plagues.

Remember: At the beginning of WW1, most people were cheering and generally happy because of the outbreak of the war.

Only really REALLY evil psychopaths would find it a good thing that war breaks out and that people should be drafted in that war. It turns out 90 % or more of the european population are really, really evil psychopaths!

This also explains the rise of Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin and their popularity!

Humans love war and hate peace. Whenever there is peace, people get bored and that's the cause of all wars!


The evidence is against you.


It seems that the less religious nations are a lot more peaceful than where religion is more prominent.

Religions are more war mongering than the non-religious nations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Generally speaking, your view of psychopaths is not worthy of an intelligent mind.

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hobojungle
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08 Aug 2018, 12:28 pm

In my own experience, I’ve found that a personal relationship with unitive consciousness through meditation is my path. I don’t ascribe to organized religions or their associates. I even hate some humans. But I believe in freedom of religion...until we don’t need freedom of religion anymore. All I can do is model though; I’ve found moralizing less effective.



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08 Aug 2018, 12:35 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think it can happen while people always have to be “right.” People often think that the have the only “right” religion, government, or political leader. Until we can respect each other’s differences and evolve a higher sense of morality (that’s not from some archaic religion), it’s not going to happen.


How do you show respect to religions and their ideologies, like Christianity and Islam, when they are so morraly wrong?

Both religions, for instance, are slave holding ideologies that has become homophobic and misogynous religions.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

Regards
DL


I don’t like these ideologies myself, but they’re going to be around for awhile. Trying to treat these groups respectfully is better than fighting.


I did not disagree with you.

I repeat my question.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

Will you tell the homophobe and misogynous that you respect their positions when you cannot honestly do so?

I can try all I like to love the sinner and hate the sin but, the rapist raping my wife will know my hate when he dies or I have the bastard incarcerated.

There is a time for hate and if you do not pick your times then you are not a moral person.

Regards
DL


I think it’s best to find common ground with people and avoid topics that will cause contention. Maybe you can gently change a person’s thinking. If you come out and attack them, they won’t change. They’ll feel they’re being “persecuted.” As a former fundie, I understand this issue all too well.

Any criminal behavior (or suspected criminal behavior) such as rape, domestic violence, or child abuse should be reported to the police. Some people have chosen to leave or not join religions because of the prevalence of abuse that goes on. The more cases that are reported the fewer members there will be.


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“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot


Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 08 Aug 2018, 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GnosticBishop
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08 Aug 2018, 1:00 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t think it can happen while people always have to be “right.” People often think that the have the only “right” religion, government, or political leader. Until we can respect each other’s differences and evolve a higher sense of morality (that’s not from some archaic religion), it’s not going to happen.


How do you show respect to religions and their ideologies, like Christianity and Islam, when they are so morraly wrong?

Both religions, for instance, are slave holding ideologies that has become homophobic and misogynous religions.

How do we show respect for such ideologies that do not deserve it?

Regards
DL


I don’t like these ideologies myself, but they’re going to be around for awhile. Trying to treat these groups respectfully is better than fighting.


Then you would be rewarding poor thinking that leads to a lot of harm.

You would be helping evil grow.

For evil to grow, all you need do is respect those who propagate it.

That is why you cannot show how you would show respect for those who have such poor thinking.

Live by these instead, please.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Love the sinner and hate the sin only after he is no longer a sinner and you can respect him. To respect sinners is to disrespect those who are not sinners.

Stop rewarding sinners and showing evil respect.

Regards
DL