So, what the heck is a Christian atheist?

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Cash__
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13 Aug 2018, 8:43 pm

Vonu wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

I’m a moral atheist. I don’t believe in God, but I’m interested in ethics and morality. I don’t believe in the Bible, but the Golden Rule reflects my attitude to an extent.

Where does your Golden Rule come from if you don't believe in the Bible?

Ancient Egypt.- circa 2000 BCE “Do for one who may do for you, That you may cause him thus to do.” – The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant 109-110,
Hebrew Bible – circa 700 BCE “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the LORD.”
Zoroastrianism.- circa 600 BCE “That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self.” – Dadistan-i-Dinik 94:5,
Buddhism.- circa 500 BCE “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.” – Udana-Varga 5:18,
Confucianism.- circa 500 BCE “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.” Analects of Confucius 15:24,
Socrates.- circa 400 BCE “Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others.”

Mythos
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13 Aug 2018, 10:35 pm

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

TwilightPrincess
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13 Aug 2018, 10:43 pm

Mythos wrote:

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

I think it might depend on the ethical rules that were ingrained in us. I embrace some of the rules I grew up with but reject others.

For instance, in my strict religion (cult), I was taught that homosexuality was “bad.” My views as a free moral agent reject this rule. It’s immoral to me to judge someone negatively based on their sexual orientation. This is just one example. There are many others. When I tell my parents that following the Bible hurts my conscience, it doesn’t go over very well. LOL

I like having a personal moral code that is not solely based on a set of external rules.

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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 13 Aug 2018, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mythos
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13 Aug 2018, 10:49 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

I think it might depend on the ethical rules that were ingrained in us. I embrace some of the rules I grew up with but reject others.

For instance, in my strict religion (cult), I was taught that homosexuality was “bad.” My views as a free moral agent reject this rule. It’s immoral to me to judge someone negatively based on their sexual orientation. This is just one example. There are many others.

I also like having a personal moral code that is not solely based on a set of external rules.

That's fair enough, but I believe all people have natural, inherited values that transcend the principles and indoctrination of figures of authority. I don't think people need to be told not to hurt people, they already know of this. Same goes for respect, courtesy, etc.

Like how you say you rejected the belief that homosexuals are immoral, you naturally were aware that this was false.

TwilightPrincess
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13 Aug 2018, 10:53 pm

Mythos wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

I think it might depend on the ethical rules that were ingrained in us. I embrace some of the rules I grew up with but reject others.

For instance, in my strict religion (cult), I was taught that homosexuality was “bad.” My views as a free moral agent reject this rule. It’s immoral to me to judge someone negatively based on their sexual orientation. This is just one example. There are many others.

I also like having a personal moral code that is not solely based on a set of external rules.

I think morality varies from person to person. Some people need laws or Biblical commandments and rules to not do “bad” stuff. What’s viewed as “bad” seems to vary. It also changes as cultures and values change.

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Mythos
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13 Aug 2018, 11:05 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

I think it might depend on the ethical rules that were ingrained in us. I embrace some of the rules I grew up with but reject others.

For instance, in my strict religion (cult), I was taught that homosexuality was “bad.” My views as a free moral agent reject this rule. It’s immoral to me to judge someone negatively based on their sexual orientation. This is just one example. There are many others.

I also like having a personal moral code that is not solely based on a set of external rules.

Again, there's nothing wrong there but I think the conclusion you're drawing from it is slightly false; cultures don't determine moral good, they often manipulate that good to become something else. All people are, by and large, born innocent, malleable and (at least in my opinion) naturally good. It is then indoctrination, be it societal, theistic or anything else, that melts this good down and shapes it into something else. Just like the bible teaches that homosexuals are immoral or that slavery is fine, it also teaches not to harm others or steal. We already naturally know this (the last two, I mean) due to empathy. But the questionable anomalies that contaminate our ingrained moral standards lead us to believing these falsehoods. In other words, we're not born immoral, society forces us into it.

This isn't the whole truth, of course; it ignores sociopaths and other mental disorders, but you understand the idea.

Mikah
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14 Aug 2018, 1:41 am

Quote:

The "Golden Rule" did not originate with the Bible. It seems to have originated with Gung Fu Tsu (a.k.a., Confucius, 551–479 BCE).

Indeed. Best not forgotten that Christianity asks you to do much, much more than just apply the Golden Rule. The Golden rule is morality for toddlers.

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14 Aug 2018, 4:36 am

Fnord wrote:

Where does your Golden Rule come from if you don't believe in the Bible?

The "Golden Rule" did not originate with the Bible. It seems to have originated with Gung Fu Tsu (a.k.a., Confucius, 551–479 BCE).[/quote]
Are you saying that it originated with Confucius and then made it's way into the Bible?

The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Aug 2018, 1:54 pm

The Golden Rule is just a common sense, it wouldn't be surprising if two separate cultures figured it out.

The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Aug 2018, 1:58 pm

Mythos wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

I think it might depend on the ethical rules that were ingrained in us. I embrace some of the rules I grew up with but reject others.

For instance, in my strict religion (cult), I was taught that homosexuality was “bad.” My views as a free moral agent reject this rule. It’s immoral to me to judge someone negatively based on their sexual orientation. This is just one example. There are many others.

I also like having a personal moral code that is not solely based on a set of external rules.

Actually, Christianity's view on humans is that they are born immoral, sinners - and their sins only can be cleansed by believing in Jesus Christ.

I find the Original Sin concept is the most twisted side in Christianity. Both Jews and Muslims don't believe in it.

TwilightPrincess
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14 Aug 2018, 2:33 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Mythos wrote:

Then why not simply follow the ethical rules ingrained in us as natural values?

I think it might depend on the ethical rules that were ingrained in us. I embrace some of the rules I grew up with but reject others.

For instance, in my strict religion (cult), I was taught that homosexuality was “bad.” My views as a free moral agent reject this rule. It’s immoral to me to judge someone negatively based on their sexual orientation. This is just one example. There are many others.

I also like having a personal moral code that is not solely based on a set of external rules.

It is pretty weird when you think about it. God says: “Let’s punish Adam and Eve and all of their offspring (even children! Why not?) for this one little ‘sin.’” That’s fair. :roll:

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AspE
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14 Aug 2018, 8:26 pm

Vonu wrote:

It is pretty simple. I follow Jesus Christ's teachings but regard the concept of a deity as something those who started a religion after he was long off the planet use as a ploy. I believe in a concept of continuing life rather than an afterlife, with my current incarnation merely a way station in eternity.

You obviously pick and choose from Jesus' teachings. Most of them are about god. Just call yourself an atheist already. There's nothing Christian about it.

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15 Aug 2018, 5:46 am

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

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15 Aug 2018, 8:37 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

That's what makes Christianity superior. If not original sin, you are in severe danger of inventing something akin to original virtue, which legitimises any instinct, thought or desire (it must come from a good place if we are virtuous by nature).

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15 Aug 2018, 8:47 am

Mikah wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Actually, Christianity's view on humans is that they are born immoral, sinners - and their sins only can be cleansed by believing in Jesus Christ. I find the Original Sin concept is the most twisted side in Christianity. Both Jews and Muslims don't believe in it.

The concept of "Original Sin" also enables the concept of "Inherited Guilt", which gives us the Left-Wing Liberal practice of blaming every white person alive today for antebellum slavery in a vain attempt to justify the concept of 'reparations' to the descendants of slaves (e.g., 'Blacks') by the descendants of slave-owners (e.g., 'Whites').

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15 Aug 2018, 8:53 am

It should be remembered that one of the bases for the creation of our American entity was the concept that:

Debts should not be passed from one generation to another.

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