25 Feb 2019, 8:09 am
shlaifu wrote:
you are aware that this is a severely leftist song, by a severly leftist band, sprung frm a severly leftist cultural moment, right?
Based on my previous casual research, it is actually referring to a personal unpleasant life experience during school aged years...
I included the song with presumptuous teachers who are educating/indoctrinating kids beyond their assigned curriculum, in mind...
Yes it was a stretch, but that is what I do...
Call it my gift of connecting tentative concepts together...
<sing>
We don't need no education (of your personal ideology)
We don't need no thought control (brainwashing)
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone (mind rape is a crime, or should be)
Hey, teachers, leave them kids alone (^^^^^^)
Ciao...
25 Feb 2019, 8:17 am
shlaifu wrote:
But there's no such thing as "objectivity" in the the social sciences - that's something the social sciences figured out in the 60s. so .... you're demnading something that, for the last 60 years, has been considered impossible.
I think you are trying too hard to be clever...
Do I threaten you?
When I referred to "objectivity", I was referring to teaching without a subjective, personal political agenda...
I am not interested in a debate, btw...
And I am not interested in a sniping competition...
Those with inherent self confidence don't need to put others down...
I hope you aren't trying to "put me in my place", because if you are, good luck...<chuckle>
Pax...
25 Feb 2019, 9:12 am
Pepe wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
But there's no such thing as "objectivity" in the the social sciences - that's something the social sciences figured out in the 60s. so .... you're demnading something that, for the last 60 years, has been considered impossible.
I think you are trying too hard to be clever...
Do I threaten you?
When I referred to "objectivity", I was referring to teaching without a subjective, personal political agenda...
I am not interested in a debate, btw...
And I am not interested in a sniping competition...
Those with inherent self confidence don't need to put others down...
I hope you aren't trying to "put me in my place", because if you are, good luck...<chuckle>
Pax...
I think I'm trying to find out where we are coming from to end up holding different views. Debating would mean to try to convince the other one, right? - I've seen some debates on youtube - they tended to make the people angrier, and no one learned anything but their stances, but little about where they were coming from and how their matrices through which they saw things might actually overlap or exclude each other -
Anyway: you're saying, teaching without political intent.
But doesn't that only mean: teaching the reinforcement of the status quo?
And another thing: in the US, it seems all discussions get politicized quickly, so... Isn't everything political for you guys?
Over here, global warming isn't a matter of which party you're voting for (except the rising far right). So we have no problems with teaching it in school.
Same thing for how many biological sexes there are: well, biology now understands tgat there's more than 2. For us, these things aren't considered political.
However, NOT teaching this [i]is[/].
25 Feb 2019, 7:59 pm
shlaifu wrote:
I think I'm trying to find out where we are coming from to end up holding different views. Debating would mean to try to convince the other one, right? - I've seen some debates on youtube - they tended to make the people angrier, and no one learned anything but their stances, but little about where they were coming from and how their matrices through which they saw things might actually overlap or exclude each other -
I have no interest in changing people's opinions...
Who am I? Papa Pepe? No...
And I am not interesting in changing the world...
There is too much shite to cope with and, after all, there isn't a big enough solid nappy bin in any case...
Do I investigate why some *specific* people think the way they do?
Occasionally...
"To each their own" is a mantra of mine...
Hence my focus is...err...focused on creating/discovering new (to me) intellectual constructs and piecing together the puzzle of "life, the universe and everything" at my leisure...
Hence my interest is in sharing and discussion as opposed to confrontational debate or argument...
Almost exclusively, every thread I create is an investigation into an intellectual construct I have been musing about...
I simply wish to identify/refine my position on the subject matter...
Debate and devil's advocacy does pay dividends, but my personal history has resulted in my finding this avenue of enlightenment very, very tiresome and very bloody annoying...
In summary:
-While understanding intellectual constructs of others is integral in the self actualisation process, there comes a point where "navel gazing" has priority, well for me at least...
-I am not interested in making people see the Truth...the Truth through my unique minds eye...
Everyone has a different set of priorities, after all...
-I am predominantly interested in seeking the Truth...that is relevant to my particular circumstance...in my own good time...
If someone wishes to join the Truth quest, that is fine, but please, no hinderers...
shlaifu wrote:
Anyway: you're saying, teaching without political intent.
But doesn't that only mean: teaching the reinforcement of the status quo?
And another thing: in the US, it seems all discussions get politicized quickly, so... Isn't everything political for you guys?
But doesn't that only mean: teaching the reinforcement of the status quo?
And another thing: in the US, it seems all discussions get politicized quickly, so... Isn't everything political for you guys?
No one will completely agree with any curriculum in a learning institution, but when one buys a Holden, one does not expect to have a Ford presented instead when one is picking up the car...
The problem I have is the mavericks/cowboys who arrogantly believe their view of the world is better for everyone and try to "unlawfully" impose their philosophy...
Those who have a problem with the direction of education should petition for change rather than engage in what I consider criminal usurpation of legitimate authority...(A number of social changes have happened this way recently here in Oz)...
As with the ABC here in Oz, the attitudinal position by legislation is (or "should be") one of objectivity...oops, sorry, I mean neutrality/impartiality...
Apparently this is a pipe dream...<shrug>
shlaifu wrote:
Over here, global warming isn't a matter of which party you're voting for (except the rising far right). So we have no problems with teaching it in school.
Same thing for how many biological sexes there are: well, biology now understands tgat there's more than 2. For us, these things aren't considered political.
However, NOT teaching this [i]is[/].
Same thing for how many biological sexes there are: well, biology now understands tgat there's more than 2. For us, these things aren't considered political.
However, NOT teaching this [i]is[/].
In Oz, there is quite clear delineation between the 2 major political parties:
The left wingers overwhelmingly embrace the concept of man made climate change and are willing to reduce economic growth to combat the perceived threat...
The conservatives tend to disbelieve the severity of the threat, consider the economic cost too great for virtually no benefit, here in Australia (since we are such a small contributor, globally speaking) and believe virtue signalling is a predominant preoccupation of the left at the expense of pragmatic considerations and actual effectiveness/result...
BTW, To teach one philosophy and to ignore or even criminalise an alternative position is not a sign of an enlightened open minded society...surely...
It smacks of fascist/communist authoritarianism...
But getting back to a former consideration relevant to this thread: The context I have introduce is one of "unlawful" infiltration of presumptuous and arrogant maverick elements but also encompasses the unconscionable manipulation of impressionable minds...
Hitler "legitimised"/legalised a state run propaganda machine designed to take advantage of youthful naivety, but I doubt many these days would embrace this sort of exploitation...
Or perhaps there are, if driven by a left wing agenda?...
There is right wing exploitation which I would like to discuss also, but I will save this for another post...
If different societies have different core values, so be it...
But it is *not* a universal actuality or fait accompli that that core value has integrity...
Human sacrifice had been an institutionalised core value of previous organised societies...
And I believe at one time, slavery was a socially accepted practice, least in some quarters, in America...
But just because it is "legislated" or socially accepted doesn't make it an enlightened social meme...
In the context of this thread, I don't see the hijacking of established and legitimate paradigms by self interested virtue signalers a lawful endeavour...
Rather, I see it as awful...
Clear as mud?...
Good...
27 Feb 2019, 2:12 am
27 Feb 2019, 8:46 pm
