does this get on your nerves?

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Yeah but in that situation he clearly had no argument, I shot his argument down. I presented facts and points, all he presented was his ignorant opinion. Ignorance is not accepting facts, ignorance is when you loose an argument on logical grounds and still continue carrying the same argument on blind emotions. If he can't counter any of my points, yet he persists to defend his position rather than learn and admit I was right, then THAT is ignorance.
Having an open mind means dealing with facts. And following the crowd and being uncritical is just plain stupid.

better yet, following the crowd and lacking critical thinking is not just stupid, it's ignorant. The greatest minds were those that deviated from social norms and did not cow-toe the public opinions. The common man has always been ridiculed by intellectuals for being dumber than a box of rocks. As far back as Plato's days.
Non-questioning conventionalist, stupid society is the reason why tyrants are able to rise to power.And they too have always made refference to how stupid the masses were, which is why they had an easy time manipulating them.

Was slavery right? After all, the majority supported it? Was the halucaust right? I mean, you can't question the majority, the majority of people at the time thought it was right.

How should we determine right or wrong
then snake? We have no knowledge if there
even IS such a thing.

well you begin by analyzing the situation with an open mind.

A fully open mind, is the mind of
an idiot. Like me. No presuppositions.
Thus, no right or wrong.

Yeah there is right and wrong -just can be hard to determine when something is partly right and partly wrong.

Well, can you prove something to be right or for something to be wrong?

It cuts both ways. i've observed there are more than a few people who THINK that they havent had a reasoned response to their point of view, and claim its all BS and hyperbole, when they actually have.. they just arent reading properly. They're either focusing on the posts of the one person theyre fighting with or just being ignorant when other people refute what they are saying in between.

That, my friends, is a bit rude. Try looking at what others have to say, and you might discover unknown allies, or that you got shot down 18 pages earlier and didnt even notice.

Was going to say "double post cause my pc is bollocks", but then thought of something else.. this whole "skipping what people have said thing"is it because some people only respond to commenst if you actualy quote them properly, with the little white boxes? Seems daft if it is.

If this is about the right to bear arms, I know you said hand guns would not do anything. But I've stated I think the people need the right to more than hand guns, I support the idea of citizen militias being reinstated. Not national guards, because NG answer to the fed. I'm talking legit trained and funded citizen militias, with arsenals comparable to that of our national army, to act as a last ditch defensive wing for the people to resist oppression from the government.
If you think this can't happen, your just being ignorant. The constitution itself is nothing more than a peice of paper, it doesn't guarantee squat. Tyrants have throughout history over-ridden many pieces of legislation much like that. These things have happened throughout history, and are still happening in other countries. Nothing makes us "special".

Ahh the irony. So open minded of you.. so well thought out. Lets see: Funnily enough, i am neither stupid, nor ignorant, and FULLY AWARE that governments can and will do things like opress their people. Are you implying that the whole of Nazi germany slipped me by? That i am blisfully unaware of soviet behavior in Afghanistan, Abkhazia, georgia, the ukraine, poland.. Taliban behaviour in modern afghanistan? The inumerable justices and injustices of colonial rule? Normans vs saxons circa 1066? That I completely missed about 95 percent of all world history since the concept off governance first began? Perhaps you who preach openmindedness and reason should be aware that some people MAY have knowledge you are not privy to, or may have greater experience of such things, or they might just have seen one more documentary than you, read that extra book, studied that little bit harder on their exams...

Funnily enough.. the second amendment is "just a piece of paper" and "doesnt guarantee squat" either. Just as your government might choose to ignore it, so might your citizens.. and if your citizens happen to be as well armed as the government, who will stand up and stop them? In the same way that many armed revolutions are quickly put down by superior firepower of government forces, some of them do succeed, and they are usually the better armed ones. Many of those go onto be evil dictatorships as well. So by arming your citizens to the same military grade as the government, you run the risk of someone deciding they could run things better, overthrowing said government, and oppressing you even more. That or starting another civil war, and f*****g up great big chunks of your country with brother killing brother AGAIN. You really want that? Especially seeing as you yourself arent allowed to have a gun anyway (if i recall correctly)?

If you wish people to be openminded to your posts, try applying that to yourself as well.

Well in that case the militias and the government could keep each other in line. But having no safeguards is just ignorant and ludicrous, not to mention dangerous. And it's unrealistic to think that the world would all put away their guns (although I wish that were the case, but it's not reality). Seeing as other nations aren't gonna do away with military power, the US can't either, or we'd get taken over by some other nation. Seeing as our government isn't gonna do away with it's military power, our citizens need to be able to defend themselves against them if and when it becomes necessary.
I wasn't being ignorant, I just told people something too truthful for them to accept. People are ignorant to any ideas, good or bad, that don't fall in their framework or their ideas, or especially in the modern days into their little box. People are so caught up in labels that it just shuts their minds down and they ignore any facts or points that aren't supported by their chosen labels. It's institutionalized bias and ignorance. Today in America (and mostly all over the world really, but especially here) conformity is treated as morality, right or wrong have no place in today's "morality". It's whatever the group does/thinks. I'm not conservative, I'm not liberal, I'm not socialist, I'm not "libertarian", I am myself. An individual. Because I am an individual, I often stand alone. Besides, according to most of society today, being an individual is an illness or a disease.

Last edited by snake321 on 17 Sep 2007, 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

All OTC's arguments were the same argument that I've already countered a thousand times, he never said a damn thing that was new. Nor did he try to counter any of my points, instead he said he wasn't interested in my points.

Life Of Brian

Brian: you're all individuals!
Crowd: Yes, we are all individuals!
Lone voice: Im not!

Sorry, couldnt resist.

Snake, why don't you move to somewhere in central Asia where the rule of the warlord is everything, where my gun justifies my rules is the logic, you may well love it and the absence of pesky legislation and governance...

Anything achieved by mere force can only ever be maintained by force, as you are such a well informed individual and so very open minded I am sure you have read Lao Tsu, so I will stop there, peace j