Ethnic Traits

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pandd
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04 May 2009, 8:23 pm

ascan wrote:

There are, obviously, caveats to those points. But at least it's an honest appraisal, not the kind of liberal crap peddled by governments who choose to ignore, ridicule, or censor opinions they find inconvenient.

hahahaha. I filled out so very many forms over my lifetime for the benefit of the government. Never have I encountered a single instance of a governmental form that did not inquire about my ethnicity/race. From literally hundreds if not thousands of examples, not a single instance of the government attempting to ignore my ethnicity/race. On the contrary, my government is clearly very interested in ethnicity/race, and has been since the country was founded.

Magnus wrote:

Why aren't they trying to figure out what is in our genes that causes specific traits?

They are, they have been, I rather suspect they will continue to.

Of course investigation into specifically behavioral genetic contributors lags behind the much less complex investigation of genetic contribution to physical characteristics, whether or not ethnicity/race is entailed.

Dussel
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04 May 2009, 9:14 pm

ascan wrote:

Magnus wrote:

...an oversight, to not at least have this all on document already?

Well, it does seem like that. Unfortunately anyone carry out research in this area faces serious injury or death from leftist nutters, or if in Europe even imprisonment for inciting hatred.

That is quite nonsense - or did you ever heard anything about researchers getting into trouble investigating why a relative or absolute immunity against HIV is much more common with blond northern Europeans than with people of other decent or why Asian people have often a much lower threshold in respect of alcohol than Europeans?

Sand
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04 May 2009, 9:53 pm

ascan wrote:

Sand wrote:

Although the concept may have statistical validity individuals are so mixed in parental origins that validity dilutes and basically disappears in individuals.

But people aren't generally mixed in parental origins, Sand. My parents, and their parents, all come from Wales, SW England, or Ireland, for example. Of course, it's true that politicians are trying to destroy that kind of thing with mass immigration from third world dumps, but as of now most people in the UK, I'd suggest, have predominantly white northern European ancestry.

That is not subject to generalization. You cannot speak of "most people" except in specific areas. Race is an outstanding problem in the USA but the country is a total mix of all sorts of origins. The racial characteristics of the so called black race such as "natural rhythm", "basket ball", "stupidity", "laziness", "criminality", etc. are just handles for generating prejudice and discrimination. And are libels.

Dussel
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04 May 2009, 10:22 pm

ascan wrote:

But people aren't generally mixed in parental origins, Sand. My parents, and their parents, all come from Wales, SW England, or Ireland, for example. Of course, ...

You may look up a bit British history - I am quite in weak in prehistoric history, but since Britain became part of the written history by Julius Caesar the following immigration wave spewed over Britian: The melting pot of the Roman Empire, the Anglo Saxons, Scandinavians (leaving in North England a strange accent and words like "Dane Geld"), the Normans later in 17th century Huguenots and Jews from western Europe, in the 19th century Jews from eastern Europe, and Italians, more recent a bend of the British Empire and very recent Polish immigration.

Sand
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04 May 2009, 11:17 pm

It should be further noted that the easy characteristic for identification of skin color contains within it huge physiological differences of family lines. Watusis, Zulus, Pigmys, lines from many different families over the huge continent of Africa have markedly different physical characteristics at different geological areas. To merely label all these extremely different cultural peoples as simply "black" is a wild distortion of proper classification and merely a stupid convenience for prejudicial purposes.

vibratetogether
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04 May 2009, 11:38 pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing such things, provided there are a few qualifications.

We should not use any minor differences to extrapolate a person's value. Racists will often grasp for any little hint of truth that will allow them to justify their desire to feel superior to other races.

We should generally express that we have a love for all people, regardless of race, sex, age, or creed.

We should focus on positive traits, those things that make us unique and special, as opposed to different and bad.

Orwell
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04 May 2009, 11:55 pm

Dussel wrote:

ascan wrote:

But people aren't generally mixed in parental origins, Sand. My parents, and their parents, all come from Wales, SW England, or Ireland, for example. Of course, ...

Yeah, the British are mutts. There were also the Jutes and the Danes early on. And don't forget the Celts! Any idea of ethnic purity is usually hogwash when critically examined.

-Scottish/Irish/Italian/miscellaneous American mutt.

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Magnus
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05 May 2009, 2:20 am

Let's leave all emotion out of this. I assumed this went without saying in the case of the kind of people who come here. Let's be honest and non-judgmental. And above all, let's have fun with it.

Dussel, are you insinuating that wh***y created AIDS?

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ascan
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05 May 2009, 3:02 am

Magnus wrote:

...I know people have yelled at me before for comparing humans to dogs...

It's a valid comparison. Humans have selectively bred certain types of dog with specific characteristics. The environment of many parts of our planet has had the same kind of influence on human characteristics.

Magnus wrote:

...Some races seem to be more serious and I don't think it's all cultural...

I expect just as skin colour, build, and susceptibility to certain diseases varies between ethnic groups and is genetically controlled, so do many cognitive characteristics. Not only currently-measurable ones like IQ, but others that are more subtle and perhaps only perceived in the way you describe.

ascan
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05 May 2009, 3:08 am

pandd wrote:

ascan wrote:

I never said they weren't interested in it, just that governments choose to ignore, ridicule, or censor opinions they find inconvenient. The concept of ethnicity and race only provides them with statistics to prove they are tackling the bogey men of the left, like racism and social exclusion.

ascan
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05 May 2009, 3:20 am

Dussel wrote:

ascan wrote:

Magnus wrote:

...an oversight, to not at least have this all on document already?

Well, it does seem like that. Unfortunately anyone carry out research in this area faces serious injury or death from leftist nutters, or if in Europe even imprisonment for inciting hatred.

That is quite nonsense - or did you ever heard anything about researchers getting into trouble investigating why a relative or absolute immunity against HIV...

I do not write nonsense, Dussel, unlike some in this thread. You'll note that HIV is a pet project of the left due to its connection with sub-Saharan Africa and homosexuality. So, anything goes, there. Try investigating race and IQ, and you'll find a different story. I've not made that up, either. I've read from two sources that researchers in this field have been subjected to intimidation. One of the sources was a book of Dawkins, but I can't remember which one. As for recent legislation on the Orwellian sounding "hate crime", I expect that would put off people, as well, especially considering how prosecution seems to be made on the basis of perception of hate by the "victim", rather than intent on the part of the "perpetrator".

ascan
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05 May 2009, 3:34 am

Orwell wrote:

Yeah, the British are mutts. There were also the Jutes and the Danes early on. And don't forget the Celts! Any idea of ethnic purity is usually hogwash when critically examined...

And that coming from a Yank! All the examples you gave are northern European, anyway, Orwell. Before the influx of Asians and Africans last century, our population was composed almost entirely of people whose parents, and grandparents, were of northern European ancestry. But anyway, nobody's arguing about "ethnic purity" it's just been erected as a strawman to compensate for your lack of understanding, and to prevent damage to your liberal sensibilities.

ascan
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05 May 2009, 3:47 am

Sand wrote:

But they are black, Sand, in so far as they're not white. Skin colour is a basic measure that can be used to categorise a person. If you include overall build as well as facial features, you have enough for a well-travelled individual to ascertain the country (or even an area within) of origin, and for a medical practitioner, after consulting the relevant literature, to assign a rough probability for contracting certain diseases. Of course, I know you and your leftist buddies want to see us all 5'10", with coffee coloured skin and an American accent, but in most parts of the world we are a long way off that just now.

You mention Africa, yes it is a huge continent -- go to Google Earth to refresh your memory, if you wish. There are more extremes of environment there, as well as topographical features that prevent, or restrict, movement of people -- mountain ranges, deserts and forest. That's why those people you mention have such different physical characteristics.

Sand
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05 May 2009, 9:50 am

ascan wrote:

Sand wrote:

In regard to people from Africa the designation of "race" is tied totally skin color. My point is that there are many physiological body types in Africa which have a huge variety of different genetic characteristics. To assign all these hugely varied shades to one category merely because they have dark skins makes no sense outside of the raw prejudice of white skinned people. Even in this highly restricted category skin color varies within black from an almost dead purple to a light tan and a wide spectrum inbetween. Smearing all these many varieties into merely a simple-minded "black". is, frankly, ludicrous.

ascan
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05 May 2009, 10:23 am

Dussel wrote:

ascan wrote:

But people aren't generally mixed in parental origins, Sand. My parents, and their parents, all come from Wales, SW England, or Ireland, for example. Of course, ...

I don't need to look it up, Dussel. Prior to the massive and destructive immigration of the late twentieth century, most immigration from far-flung corners of the globe was limited. The majority of it was from other northern European countries. The following link is interesting, and relates to DNA from an 9000 year old skeleton found in a cave in Somerset. The mitochondrial DNA has been matched with several living people in the nearby village.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man

Last edited by ascan on 05 May 2009, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

ascan
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05 May 2009, 10:27 am

Sand wrote:

To assign all these hugely varied shades to one category merely because they have dark skins makes no sense outside of the raw prejudice of white skinned people...

Seems sensible to me. Seeing how you like the mathematical, I'd suggest you are describing sets and subsets.

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