Greenspan Chides Republicans For Pushing To Extend Bush Tax

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marshall
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16 Nov 2010, 1:58 pm

psychohist wrote:

number5 wrote:

You've quite clearly never had any first hand experience with job loss or illness. How fortunate for you. For the rest of us who have been dealt a few bad cards here and there, I will continue to speak up.

You are making false assumptions. I've had to change jobs quite a few times. Once I laid myself off, because the little practice I was in charge of couldn't support two people, and laying off the person who worked for me wouldn't have been the right decision for the company.

The fact is, if people take responsibility for their situation, they can work their way out of it. Lose your job? Find another one. Those jobs don't exist any more? Learn new skills. Lifetime jobs don't exist; people need to take responsibility for their own careers and do what it takes to stay in the job market.

I've certainly had experience with illness and conditions that handicap me in the job market. I fixed what I could fix and figured out how to work with things I couldn't fix. Sure, it takes me three times as long to find a job as it would a neurotypical - so I spend less and save more when I have a job. It's a fact of life; if you accept it, you can work with it instead of railing against it.

I notice you aren't even aspie/autie - you have no clue what most of the people on this forum have to deal with when working in the neurotypical economy. Yet, it's possible to deal with those issues if one takes responsibility for one's own life.

Well good for you. You must realize that not everyone has the same means to "take responsibility" as you do.

marshall
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16 Nov 2010, 2:07 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

If you haven't even read it (and I doubt you have read either), you can't make that claim.

I read the part partaining to pre-existing conditions in it's entirety and it wasn't satisfactory. It does not end discrimination against pre-existing conditions as republicans claim.

I attempted to read the portion pertaining to controlling premium costs but I couldn't understand it. It seemed like they were merely passing the buck to the states to provide "incentives" to insurance companies for lowering costs, the exact nature of which was pretty obscure to me due to the legalize language.

psychohist
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16 Nov 2010, 2:17 pm

marshall wrote:

Well good for you. You must realize that not everyone has the same means to "take responsibility" as you do.

It doesn't take any "means". It's an attitude. With very few possible exceptions - maybe low functioning auties - anyone can do it.

Edit: actually, strike the exception. The one low functioning autie I'm acquainted with personally also took responsiblity for her own life when it counted.

Last edited by psychohist on 16 Nov 2010, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Inuyasha
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16 Nov 2010, 2:18 pm

marshall wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

If you haven't even read it (and I doubt you have read either), you can't make that claim.

I read the part partaining to pre-existing conditions in it's entirety and it wasn't satisfactory. It does not end discrimination against pre-existing conditions as republicans claim.

Is it okay for someone whom just found out they have cancer to get an insurance policy so that the insurance has to pay for the treatment? If that's the case how about we all only get insurance when we have a costly medical issue and get them to pay for it... You want to run them out of business so they can't pay for an emergency heart operation for someone that has held a policy with them for years?

marshall wrote:

I attempted to read the portion pertaining to controlling premium costs but I couldn't understand it. It seemed like they were merely passing the buck to the states to provide "incentives" to insurance companies for lowering costs, the exact nature of which was pretty obscure to me due to the legalize language.

Did you see the stuff about competition across state lines? Sudden competition increases from 3 insurers to over a 1000 in the California marketplace would bring down insurance costs a lot?

@ auntblabby
And has your life improved or are you continuing to be dependent on Government. That is the thing, the Dems want you to remain in that situation so you are beholden to them and will continue to vote Democrat.

marshall
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16 Nov 2010, 3:07 pm

psychohist wrote:

marshall wrote:

Well good for you. You must realize that not everyone has the same means to "take responsibility" as you do.

It doesn't take any "means". It's an attitude. With very few possible exceptions - maybe low functioning auties - anyone can do it.

Actually no. You aren't even diagnosed so you can't speak for all people on the autism spectrum. For you to do so in such a dismissive manner is highly irritating. :evil:

If you really want a fight keep it up with your patronizing BS. What about people with clinical depression or other crippling mental illnesses on top of autism. I suppose you think it's their fault and they can just snap out of it with a "positive attitude", right? And if they can't it's their own damn fault because you fail to relate to their plight? If that's the case then all I have to say is f**k YOU. GO AWAY. YOU HAVEN"T EXPERIENCED s**t SO SHUT THE f**k UP!

psychohist
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16 Nov 2010, 3:55 pm

marshall wrote:

Actually no. You aren't even diagnosed so you can't speak for all people on the autism spectrum. For you to do so in such a dismissive manner is highly irritating. :evil:

It sounds to me like it's you that's being dismissive of aspies/auties, since you seem to be claiming that we are incapable of being responsible. Aspies/auties are not broken, just different from neurotypicals, and an inherent lack of responsibility is not one of the differences.

Quote:

What about people with clinical depression or other crippling mental illnesses on top of autism. I suppose you think it's their fault and they can just snap out of it with a "positive attitude", right?

You're the one who is bringing up a "positive attitude", not me. I'm only in favor of taking responsibility for one's life and facing its realities. It has nothing to do with a positive attitude, just with the realization that how one's life goes is shaped largely by one's own actions.

Clinical depression is not crippling in today's world, either. A long term former girlfriend of mine was diagnosed with clinical depression, though it turned out she was bipolar, and inexpensive drugs were able to give her the stability she needed to deal with life; same with various other friends and relatives. My wife actually had clinical depression and dealt with it without drugs. Depression is actually much easier to deal with than being on the spectrum, as depression can be changed - though it does typically take a lot of hard work, and isn't something you "snap out of".

mcg
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16 Nov 2010, 3:58 pm

marshall wrote:

psychohist wrote:

marshall wrote:

Well good for you. You must realize that not everyone has the same means to "take responsibility" as you do.

It doesn't take any "means". It's an attitude. With very few possible exceptions - maybe low functioning auties - anyone can do it.

Actually no. You aren't even diagnosed so you can't speak for all people on the autism spectrum. For you to do so in such a dismissive manner is highly irritating. :evil:

If you feel so strongly about this, maybe you should personally help some of these people you are talking about. Or do you not feel strongly enough to spend YOUR OWN money?

psychohist
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16 Nov 2010, 4:41 pm

mcg wrote:

If you feel so strongly about this, maybe you should personally help some of these people you are talking about. Or do you not feel strongly enough to spend YOUR OWN money?

To be fair, he may not have any money to spare. Money isn't the biggest thing depressed people need, anyway; they need friends that they can talk to.

number5
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16 Nov 2010, 5:14 pm

My, this thread has taken an ugly turn.

As for this:

psychohist wrote:

I notice you aren't even aspie/autie - you have no clue what most of the people on this forum have to deal with when working in the neurotypical economy. Yet, it's possible to deal with those issues if one takes responsibility for one's own life.

I have no official diagnosis. I didn't even know much about AS at all until my son was born. As I learned about it, I became aware that I fit the description nearly perfectly. My diagnosed son is a smaller version of myself in many, many ways. I fully understand and relate to all of his challenges. I do not plan on seeking a diagnosis because we don't have much wiggle room in our budget these days. I've made it this far without help, so if it ain't broke, why fix it?

I am rather taken by your jump to judgement of others. Clinical depression can indeed be crippling, as can many other illnesses, conditions, diseases, etc. It's wonderful that you and your girlfriend were able to overcome your struggles, but let's have a little respect for those who can't. Should I ask my husband with muscular dystrophy to take some responsibility and lose the cane? You simply cannot know what others go through unless you are in their shoes.

number5
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16 Nov 2010, 5:37 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

@number5

You seem to have missed what I pointed out.

Inuyasha wrote:

Did you know the solar power plant in Spain was generating more electricity when it was nighttime in Spain than during the day. This is the very same "Green Jobs" that Obama was touting using Spain as an example. Turns out they were hooking up Diesel Generators and using those to generate the power during the night to make it seem as though they were generating all this power that they weren't. It was a scam.

No, I didn't miss it. I just tried to explain how and why it works in my reply, but science doesn't seem to interest you. Perhaps I need to be more clear. Solar power is an intermittent source of energy because the sun sets at night. For continuous power, a supplemental source is often used at night, especially on such a large scale endeavor. Sometimes, diesel generators are used as a supplemental source, but the current trend is to move towards wind power at night. It's completely obvious and expected that a large diesel generator would pump out more power than solar panels, but for a myriad of practical reasons, we are trying to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.

The solar power plant in Spain is having some financial difficulties. I was only able to read a little bit about the situation, but it appears as though it was gross mismanagement on the government's part with subsidy and tariff issues. Not one credible source mentioned anything about the generators because the info in my first paragraph is common scientific knowledge. There was no scam whatsoever.

psychohist
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16 Nov 2010, 6:01 pm

number5 wrote:

I am rather taken by your jump to judgement of others.

It seems to me that you're the one being judgemental. I'm not the one claiming that people with clinical depression are incapable of dealing with their problems.

Quote:

Should I ask my husband with muscular dystrophy to take some responsibility and lose the cane?

How do you come to the conclusion that "responsibility" would include getting rid of the cane? Responsibility would mean getting a cane if you needed it, just as many that I know got treatment for their depression when they needed it. What would be irresponsible would be wallowing in self pity while refusing a cost effective solution like a cane.

Quote:

You simply cannot know what others go through unless you are in their shoes.

And yet, you're more than happy to jump to the conclusion that the only way people can succeed is through "good fortune" rather than what actually works - hard work.

Inuyasha
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16 Nov 2010, 7:16 pm

@ number5

The point of solar power is to collect the power and have enough stored up for nighttime use, not having to hook up diesel generators because you couldn't get enough power.

auntblabby
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17 Nov 2010, 12:52 am

psychohist wrote:

The fact is, if people take responsibility for their situation, they can work their way out of it. Lose your job? Find another one. Those jobs don't exist any more? Learn new skills. Lifetime jobs don't exist; people need to take responsibility for their own careers and do what it takes to stay in the job market.
I've certainly had experience with illness and conditions that handicap me in the job market. I fixed what I could fix and figured out how to work with things I couldn't fix. Sure, it takes me three times as long to find a job as it would a neurotypical - so I spend less and save more when I have a job. It's a fact of life; if you accept it, you can work with it instead of railing against it.
I notice you aren't even aspie/autie - you have no clue what most of the people on this forum have to deal with when working in the neurotypical economy. Yet, it's possible to deal with those issues if one takes responsibility for one's own life.

horatio alger doesn't work for me. stop insisting that it should work for everybody. we are not all the same. you may be smarter and more energetic than a lot of other people, that is the reason for your success in life. besides, who can afford to repeatedly go back to college to learn new skills? education is very expensive. and let us not stoop to the purity wars.

ruveyn
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17 Nov 2010, 9:55 am

auntblabby wrote:

I picked up three new skills by part time schooling and self-education. You are writing a brief for being lazy.

ruveyn

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18 Nov 2010, 2:06 am

ruveyn wrote:

I picked up three new skills by part time schooling and self-education. You are writing a brief for being lazy.

saying the working class is lazy is just insulting. growing up, my parents had to work multiple jobs just to keep the roof over our heads from being reposessed, and had absolutely no ability to entertain any horatio alger schemes. sounds like marie antoinette to me - "let them eat tax cuts!"

ruveyn
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18 Nov 2010, 9:04 am

auntblabby wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

I picked up three new skills by part time schooling and self-education. You are writing a brief for being lazy.

As long as there are self made millionaires or billionaires (Thomas Edison was a poor boy who made himself rich. So was Andrew Carnegie who come from Scotland with the clothes on his back), there is always a chance to Make Good. You just live to whine, don't you?

ruveyn

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