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Why aren't we allowed to preach about homosexuality?

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DarthMetaKnight
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30 Jul 2017, 2:43 pm

firemonkey wrote:
All this pontificating. It's really very simple , if two men or women want to live and sleep together respect their right to do so.


Yeah ... but if we let them do what that want, they might sting us and turn us gay! :lol:


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0_equals_true
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30 Jul 2017, 3:02 pm

Chichikov wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0232.htm#26
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0517.htm
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0324.htm#16


Again a straw-man argument, no-one is saying there are not violent incidents in The Bible. Everything I said to the last person that put this across I say to you, I'm not going to constantly repeat myself.


Huh?

You asked me if as a tenant of the faith e.g. and example by God, there is instruction to kill people for not believing in that doctrine. I gave you clear examples. Did you read them. These are not just examples of violence but instruction of violence.

I fail to see how that a strawman. You asked a question I answered it. I also pointed out that Islamic apologist use a similar argument to play down the violent instruction in the Quran saying violence is not the takeaway message of the Quran.

In reality it is big part of both and connected via doctrine.

You can connect the example in the Quran to the example in the Old Testament in may aspects of the faith.



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30 Jul 2017, 3:25 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Why? Because most Christian now DONT believe that homosexuality is a sin. They don't believe it's an "abomination."

And most Christian churches don't ordain any penalty for a homosexual person. They can be members of churches without being persecuted.

And it's been proven, pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt, that one cannot "overcome" homosexuality. One is "born" with it.

I'm a heterosexual man.


You obviously were never in a fundamentalist congregation like the Baptists (any form), Pentecostal, or any of the conservative mainline denominations like the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, WELS/ELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod/Evangelical Lutheran Synod), LCMC (Lutheran Church in Missions to Christ), and, to a lesser extent, The United Methodist Church. Notice that, with the exception of the Lutheran bodies, these denominations are heavily Calvinistic, Armenian, or both, as well as being Dominionist and Predestinistic and Dispensationalist.

Quite frankly, I agree with these bodies on homosexuality. I still say that dropping homosexuality from the Damn Stupid Manual (DSM) was a BIG mistake.



LoveNotHate
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30 Jul 2017, 5:46 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
Quite frankly, I agree with these bodies on homosexuality. I still say that dropping homosexuality from the Damn Stupid Manual (DSM) was a BIG mistake.

When people are righteous and fervent about homosexuals isn't that the real mental illness ?

Ordinary people shrug their shoulders.



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30 Jul 2017, 6:09 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Why? Because most Christian now DONT believe that homosexuality is a sin. They don't believe it's an "abomination."

And most Christian churches don't ordain any penalty for a homosexual person. They can be members of churches without being persecuted.

And it's been proven, pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt, that one cannot "overcome" homosexuality. One is "born" with it.

I'm a heterosexual man.


You obviously were never in a fundamentalist congregation like the Baptists (any form), Pentecostal, or any of the conservative mainline denominations like the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, WELS/ELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod/Evangelical Lutheran Synod), LCMC (Lutheran Church in Missions to Christ), and, to a lesser extent, The United Methodist Church. Notice that, with the exception of the Lutheran bodies, these denominations are heavily Calvinistic, Armenian, or both, as well as being Dominionist and Predestinistic and Dispensationalist.

Quite frankly, I agree with these bodies on homosexuality. I still say that dropping homosexuality from the Damn Stupid Manual (DSM) was a BIG mistake.


Fundies are the worst...

Also in what way was dropping homosexuality from the DSM a mistake? If anything it was a great move...as I imagine it has played a role in reducing things like scammy and harmful 'conversion therapy' or whatever that tries to force homosexuals to become straight through indoctrination.

Perhaps they should add fundamentalist to the DSM, some fundies are just too far gone in their ideology to be reasoned with.


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30 Jul 2017, 7:24 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Why? Because most Christian now DONT believe that homosexuality is a sin. They don't believe it's an "abomination."

And most Christian churches don't ordain any penalty for a homosexual person. They can be members of churches without being persecuted.

And it's been proven, pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt, that one cannot "overcome" homosexuality. One is "born" with it.

I'm a heterosexual man.


You obviously were never in a fundamentalist congregation like the Baptists (any form), Pentecostal, or any of the conservative mainline denominations like the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, WELS/ELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod/Evangelical Lutheran Synod), LCMC (Lutheran Church in Missions to Christ), and, to a lesser extent, The United Methodist Church. Notice that, with the exception of the Lutheran bodies, these denominations are heavily Calvinistic, Armenian, or both, as well as being Dominionist and Predestinistic and Dispensationalist.

Quite frankly, I agree with these bodies on homosexuality. I still say that dropping homosexuality from the Damn Stupid Manual (DSM) was a BIG mistake.


Fundies are the worst...

Also in what way was dropping homosexuality from the DSM a mistake? If anything it was a great move...as I imagine it has played a role in reducing things like scammy and harmful 'conversion therapy' or whatever that tries to force homosexuals to become straight through indoctrination.

Perhaps they should add fundamentalist to the DSM, some fundies are just too far gone in their ideology to be reasoned with.


At the very least it would be reasonable include extreme homophobia if it's either disruptive to the individual and their ability to function in society or distressing to them as a mental illness. It's not healthy to fixate on what other adults are doing in their own private bedrooms, especially if this obsession is coupled with sexual frustration and/or feelings of never-ending romantic rejection.


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30 Jul 2017, 9:34 pm

So, according to other posts on this thread - on the one hand we have God making people gay because he was angry and on the other we have Jesus saying forgive everyone and love they neighbor which, come to think of it, aren't all that different.

And I find this mind boggling as well :

If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?



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30 Jul 2017, 9:47 pm

Lintar wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Lintar wrote:
1 Corinthians 6:9–11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (ESV)


Keep googling and not all versions will mention homosexuality, in fact most wont, you've cherry picked one that does. People are still uncertain as to the exact meaning of the translation of the original words. That it involves some form of immorality isn't disputed but the exact form still is.

Again. Thousands of pages and here were are debating minutiae over single words. If homosexuality really was a sin you'd think it would be more explicit.

I do want your interpretation to prevail.


Why do you want this? His view will not prevail, because it is wrong, he is mistaken.

It's better to be happy than right.


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31 Jul 2017, 1:56 am

beady wrote:
So, according to other posts on this thread - on the one hand we have God making people gay because he was angry and on the other we have Jesus saying forgive everyone and love they neighbor which, come to think of it, aren't all that different.

And I find this mind boggling as well :

If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?


Perhaps they enjoy a challenge?



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31 Jul 2017, 2:00 am

beady wrote:
If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?

Most everyone thinks they're poor.

So, there are no rich people.

"Boston College’s Center on Wealth and Philanthropy among the über-rich found that the majority of those who have more than $25 million do not consider themselves financially secure".
https://www.learnvest.com/2011/05/why-t ... l-poor-133

Merely 100 million net worth is poor when you want to compete with billionaires.

1 billion wealth is poor if you want to compete with multi-billionaires.



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 31 Jul 2017, 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

DarthMetaKnight
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31 Jul 2017, 2:09 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
beady wrote:
If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?

Most everyone thinks they're poor.

So, there are no rich people.


Ummm ... no.

In fact, quite a few poor people think that they are rich.

This explains why so many small business owners vote Republican and spread bizarre conspiracy theories regarding "communist infiltration".

Too many small business owners suffer from false consciousness.


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31 Jul 2017, 2:13 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beady wrote:
If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?

Most everyone thinks they're poor.

So, there are no rich people.


Ummm ... no.

Everyone rich person I have ever known feels poor, or better stated, they don't feel rich.

They only have like 5-10 million in assets, which is small potatoes in America. So, they feel poor.

You have to realize that rich people generally do not associate with poor people. So, their context of wealth is based on that.

"Boston College’s Center on Wealth and Philanthropy among the über-rich found that the majority of those who have more than $25 million do not consider themselves financially secure".
https://www.learnvest.com/2011/05/why-t ... l-poor-133



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31 Jul 2017, 2:18 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
LOL

One minute, Christians talk tough. "Real men love Jesus! Christians are real Americans! RAAAWR!"
The next minute ... "BAAAWWWWWWWWWWW! Atheists are mean! Stop triggering me!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


funeralxempire wrote:
Leave the snowflakes alone, they're used to everywhere being their safespace and they're not adapting very well to losing their monopoly on politcal correctness. :wink:


these two posts just reminded me, i think it would be good to post a general advisory and reminder here in this thread of the following PPR rule/guideline, which it seems we've come close to or have breached several times over (or overlooked)

Quote:
1. PPR
This is a special forum. It is for debating and as such pretty much anything goes provided it stays within the site rules and the following guidelines. It is more or less freedom of speech. It doesn't matter if some people have obnoxious or ill-informed opinions regarding politics, religion or virtually anything else. People can debate and criticize any religion, atheism, political party, public figures etc. Just because some members may belong to a particular religion (or atheism) or political party, does not exclude it from debate. If people want to criticize atheism that is fine. Criticise Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Paganism, Confucianism, Judaism, Satanism, Scientology etc all fine too.


yet:

Quote:
Other groups of people.
While it is acceptable to attack and debate beliefs (political, religious etc) it is not acceptable to make generalised attacks on the adherents of those beliefs. It is acceptable to say that Republicanism, Liberalism, Christianity, Islam are stupid but not acceptable to make generalised attacks saying that Republicans, Liberals, Christians or Muslims are morons. You could say that some of these people are stupid because of (reason) but not make generalised attacks on groups of people.


carry on, ladies. :)


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31 Jul 2017, 2:19 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
In fact, quite a few poor people think that they are rich.


so THAT'S why so many people here like to buy cars (or other stuff) with zero down and like 20 year financing plans!? :skull:


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31 Jul 2017, 5:39 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beady wrote:
If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?

Most everyone thinks they're poor.

So, there are no rich people.


Ummm ... no.

Everyone rich person I have ever known feels poor, or better stated, they don't feel rich.

They only have like 5-10 million in assets, which is small potatoes in America. So, they feel poor.

You have to realize that rich people generally do not associate with poor people. So, their context of wealth is based on that.

"Boston College’s Center on Wealth and Philanthropy among the über-rich found that the majority of those who have more than $25 million do not consider themselves financially secure".
https://www.learnvest.com/2011/05/why-t ... l-poor-133


Forget about the rich clods who think they're poor. There are plenty of actual poor people in America who don't have access to millions of dollars, and don't own homes.


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LoveNotHate
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31 Jul 2017, 5:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beady wrote:
If wealthy people who call themselves conservatives and supporters of christianity believe what Jesus says, supposedly this:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"....

then why are they against giving up their wealth? Why do religious people want to accumulate wealth when they may be denying themselves an opportunity to go to heaven? Because they all think that they are such good people that it won't be difficult for them to fit through the figurative hole in the needle?

Most everyone thinks they're poor.

So, there are no rich people.


Ummm ... no.

Everyone rich person I have ever known feels poor, or better stated, they don't feel rich.

They only have like 5-10 million in assets, which is small potatoes in America. So, they feel poor.

You have to realize that rich people generally do not associate with poor people. So, their context of wealth is based on that.

"Boston College’s Center on Wealth and Philanthropy among the über-rich found that the majority of those who have more than $25 million do not consider themselves financially secure".
https://www.learnvest.com/2011/05/why-t ... l-poor-133


Forget about the rich clods who think they're poor. There are plenty of actual poor people in America who don't have access to millions of dollars, and don't own homes.

That wasn't the question though.

The question was regarding why "rich" Christian people don't donate more.

The answer is ... they don't feel rich.