The end of Obamacare?

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And we'll become more and more like Egypt. There will be riots in the streets. The government will have to order violent crackdowns and we'll no longer be a functioning democracy.

I'm not sure how we can increase the number of Doctors we have, the price of malpractice insurance is an inhibiting factor, and perhaps the most important reason for tort reform. It is a reasonable assumption that a person will wait longer to see a doctor, when there are more patients.

I think there are some people who aren't concerned with the deficit as long as their taxes are not increased. There is no doubt in my mind that any health care plan will eventually require additional funding. I would like to think that some would have the courage to raise taxes or cut spending before we go broke.

When social security taxes are cut to put more money in peoples pockets, is this a disguised social program? Is it possible that down the road, a young person who pays no social security taxes, will pay additional money to compensate for this tax cut?

If you can look at it this way, aren't many of the tax breaks and bailouts in the last ten years social programs that someone else who did not benefit directly from will have to eventually pay for? Much of it was not funded. If social programs steal from one group and give to another, doesn't this put unfunded tax breaks and bailouts in the same category?

I understand the issue with the mandate is one of law, but one of the net effects of the mandate would be a decrease in the Emergency Room Social Program by requiring people to pay a portion of the costs of healthcare that they might of eventually received under the Emergency Room Social Program.

I think for all practical intents and purposes Health Care Expansion is a done deal (doesn't mean "Obamacare" is a done deal). Getting rid of the mandate could lead the US further down the deficit road, if no one is willing to pay for Health Care Expansion.

Trust me, it doesn't work. He is beyond rationality.


He is not respectful. He has repeatedly accused me of being a socialist, a Stalinist, and many other things. He spent about a week repeating the same lie about my position on the Arizona shooting despite being corrected on multiple occasions. Respect is not merely given; it must be earned. Inuyasha has forfeited my respect a long time ago.


So you just don't pay attention to local politics at all? Creationists have repeatedly tried to sabotage science education in your state. I'm actually very surprised that you could possibly be ignorant of that fact. As to "life choices respected as personal choices," was an abortion doctor not gunned down in Kansas?


Except for that one incident where an unarmed man was gunned down in church for his stance on abortion?


Those are the most obnoxious liberals in the world. I've run into a couple of Whole Foods Liberals; can't stand them.

Except teachers don't actually teach creationism, the only hints of it in science classes are from out of state books. Even when those policies where the standard intelligent design only got a required mention, evolution was the focus.(The policies where soundly overturned in the next election, with minimal impact on the education of the students) And what do you mean repeatedly? I only know of one attempt that got anywhere, and even that was ineffective.

And yes except for that one(although there are likely more) example, you cannot demand perfection, you have tried to generalize my state as some kind of hick religious gangbang where the Christians are always violently or otherwise forcing their opinions on others. That is simply not the case. Also Keep in mind that one man's violence in a church that likely has plenty of pro-lifers who disagree with abortion does not cancel out the non-violence of the other pro-lifers present in Kansas. Nor does it cancel out the tolerance shown by Kansans in their everyday life.

That comment about respect was a general statement about the behavior expected of people(adults) in a public setting in Kansas. Others behaviors do not excuse our own, at least in Kansas. I alluded to the gunman in my post, and I had forgotten about the evolution hearings because they where effectively irrelevant. I pay attention to local news, I like to know what might effect me.

EDIT: Also that whole earn respect thing is BS, if no one is respecting anyone how does someone earn respect. No one is inclined to respect someone who does not offer the same in return.
Also how does talking down to him help? does it make you feel better? I hardly think thats a good reason to be rude in a public forum.

There have been multiple attempts; most of them have not gotten as far. But there certainly is a movement in your state pushing to make the teaching of creationism mandatory. And irrespective of the attitudes in your hometown, right-wing politicians and ideologues have constructed this mythos around small-town "real Americans." See e.g. Sarah Palin. These are the same people who castigate intelligence and shun the educated, instead glorifying and elevating morons like Palin, Bachmann, and Bush who are revered for their (completely fabricated) "ordinary folks" image.

Look, when Inuyasha first showed up to this site I was polite and respectful to him, and tried to have rational discussions with him. He eventually showed himself to be completely batshit crazy, and repeatedly levels false accusations against anyone who disagrees with him. So no, I'm not going to be polite to him. My patience has limits, and he reached them a while ago.

*shrugs* Whatever movement you speak of has no public face and even if it did that would not justify your generalization. You generalized my state as an ass backwards theological battleground between Christians and whoever else when it is plainly not, otherwise wouldn't the failure of said creationist movement have been met with some public reaction? Not the indifference of something that was done that moment it was born. I was educated mostly in Wichita, but creationism(nor-religion) was never an issue(although I can't speak for debate as I never took it) in any of my schools, even when that school was small-town. (I have attended at least 8 different schools at different grade levels not all of them in the same town, although all of them in the same county.)

The state voted republican because thats what comes closest to agreement with what they want, we do not call our opponents un-American.(unless they are in fact foreign, and only of course if they are bashing America, this of course will have exception with the xenophobes but they do not number high)



That sucks.

I really doubt that's true. The public school I attended had multiple teachers advocating for creationism, including during class. Any time evolution was discussed in class we had to go through the same crap with certain students disrupting lecture with their nonsense (this even happened once with a history course that discussed events from about 7000-8000 years ago, which apparently was too blasphemous for some). Certainly Kansas has at least as much anti-evolutionist sentiment as Ohio.


I never brought religion into it; but when you challenged me for an example of anti-intellectualism I pointed out creationism. I'm Presbyterian, btw.


Or at least, they believed they agreed with Republicans. Voters on both sides are horrendously misinformed, to the point where I'm quite skeptical of any election result actually signifying anything real. A significant part of the Republican success in rural areas has to do with their crusading on social conservative planks and appealing to the Religious Right. On economic issues alone, I doubt that rural voters would support the GOP in large numbers.


Perhaps you do not. Many conservatives (including our own Inuyasha) do.

Ohio isn't Kansas. What logic do you have that your experiences in Ohio apply to any other state? To Kansas? Doubt as you wish but do you have any evidence of a public creationist(in regards to interfering in education) sentiment? We may have a high percentage of Christians but even then creationism doesn't touch our education, shouldn't that tell you something?



Thats bringing religion into it, you assumed our religious institutions damn education and damn science, when they do not, that is the generalizing I was referring to.




Your guessing, I wrote the part below before this part and while I think I wrote it as an example of how events actively formed a Kansas vote, I don't remember anymore so I can't be sure. Also I think 3 of the last 5 governors have been of the democratic party. Kansas is a pretty social conservative state, but that doesn't mean we promote hate mongering, nor does it mean we force our views(now you may argue that a law is forcing social views on others but that is really irrelevant as that is one of the reasons for laws in the first place) on others as you claimed.

He did have the moderate republican vote, but then he got all iffy on Abortion(claiming to want to reduce abortion when he had voted to expand it in the past), and lost it. It made him look too much like he was willing to lie to get into office which seems silly but apparently it is something that we can't handle.

He likely got as close as he did to winning against McCain because of the health care issue.(Obama's argument was stronger in this regard than McCains, the methods he proposed(to make medical care accessible) where seen as interfering with employees insurance, while doing nothing to actually fix problems already present. His proposal to deregulate a largely unregulated industry was moronic, and yes everybody knew the insurance companies where already given free reign.

These where what I view as the two major elements that formed the presidential vote in 2008.

Kansas recently endured a high-profile effort to damage the teaching of evolution by the state school board. That was in 2005. It took until 2007 to undo the damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_evolution_hearings

Which is what we where just talking about, it had no real effect no one started teaching creationism just because the school board told them too, and they could get away with it because it was an overestimation of their political power.(the hearings) It took till 2007 because that was the next election. There was no damage to speak of.

A) The damage was in allowing the perception that the school board's position was justified in some way. It set back the effort to educate the American public by giving false hope to unscientific doctrines.

B) You have no idea what happened in each and every classroom in the state. The official policy was a sop to those who don't respect science and were looking for an opening. Those people do exist. You can't wish them away just to suit the needs of your current argument. That's dishonest.

It did no damage to Kansan kids.



The general political climate was against the change in policy and that was reflected in the newspapers, local media, and the teachers and local school administration. It was an ill formed decision and was ineffective in its entirety. The official policy was not the effective policy. I have made no dishonest statement today either in writing or speech. I never claimed that creationist don't exist. I never claimed that creationist who wish to undo evolution don't exist, I am claiming they have never had the political power to do as they wish in this state, which they have not.

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... achers.ars

Your going to have to share how exactly you think this fits against or with my argument. Of course this is only if you are expecting a response of some kind.

A quick check shows that Kansas did change the science standards to attack evolution in 1999 as well. Which was reversed two years later in 2001. It seems that both in 1999 and 2005 the school boards were subsequently thrown out because many in Kansas don't want that kind of attention or reputation.

But there is no doubt they have a motivated anti-science fundamentalist crowd in the state. Also, Republicans in general are more likely to doubt evolution according to Gallup. And Kansas is red.

But there was a poll in 2009 that showed Kansas science teachers on the lower end of creationist belief when compared to other (esp southern) state's science teachers.

If anyone is beyond rationality around here it is you... Seriously, you can't wrap your head around the reason why Obamacare is unconstitutional and you still support Obamacare as though the ends justify the means and who cares about Constitutionality. Well I got news for you, the ends do not justify the means we are a nation built on limited Government not a rule by decree, not mob rule, and not tyranny. We are a Constitutional Republic where the Constitution is the framework for the entire foundation of everything this country stands for.



And your behavior and comments are why I made the comments I made. I am going to call a spade a spade. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck those are pretty good indications that it is a duck. You spout off similar views as a socialist (though I don't remember calling you a Stalinist), a lot of the comments you have made sounds like a socialist theology, that's a pretty good indication you are a socialist. You may not understand what all socialism entails (and that wouldn't surprise me), but the fact remains you often promote Government functioning as a nanny state, that can be either fascism or socialism/communism, would you rather I call you a fascist?.





The argument from Creationists is God created life, some creationists don't believe in evolution that is true. However, many Creationists do believe in evolution. Creationists just have the one argument with evolutionists over how life began, and quite frankly evolutionism breaks down when you get to how life began due to basic chemistry (the chemicals in amino acids tend to be more reactive to elements that were all over the place on early Earth than they would be to each other which makes it rather implausible that they would somehow combine). Creationism and Evolutionism can actually fit together rather well if you look at the idea God created life and then used evolution to create different species. Remember the Bible (especially the old testament) was written for a people that were not as advanced as we are. God may not have inspired the work to have all the information because quite frankly it would be too much information and too confusing for early man.



How about the incident where a pro-abortion individual gunned down a pro-lifer in Michigan?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/break ... 19487.html

Stop claiming only pro-lifers are violent, pro-abortion nuts can be just as violent if not more so.

Then there is the results of a recent sting involving Planned Parenthood.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02 ... arenthood/

Care to explain why they were helping supposed pimps trafficking in 13-15 year old girls?



Really, because you tend to act just like them.