How to peacefully disband The Illegimate State of Israel

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ruveyn
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21 Apr 2011, 2:06 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

That last point you made of the original Zionists being communists and socialists is something the American far right conveniently ignores.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Theodor Herzel, one of the founders of the Zionist movement, was neither a communist, nor a socialist. He was burgoise.

ruveyn

Kraichgauer
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21 Apr 2011, 2:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That last point you made of the original Zionists being communists and socialists is something the American far right conveniently ignores.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Theodor Herzel, one of the founders of the Zionist movement, was neither a communist, nor a socialist. He was burgoise.

ruveyn

Well, of course, it's wrong to lump any diverse group of people into one political category. I apologize.

_Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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21 Apr 2011, 2:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That last point you made of the original Zionists being communists and socialists is something the American far right conveniently ignores.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Theodor Herzel, one of the founders of the Zionist movement, was neither a communist, nor a socialist. He was burgoise.

ruveyn

Well, of course, it's wrong to lump any diverse group of people into one political category. I apologize.

_Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Well, regardless, a lot of inital support, zeal, and mobolization towards settling Palestinian in Zionist communities and communes was thanks to radical socialists.

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Kraichgauer
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21 Apr 2011, 2:27 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That last point you made of the original Zionists being communists and socialists is something the American far right conveniently ignores.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Theodor Herzel, one of the founders of the Zionist movement, was neither a communist, nor a socialist. He was burgoise.

ruveyn

Well, of course, it's wrong to lump any diverse group of people into one political category. I apologize.

_Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Well, regardless, a lot of inital support, zeal, and mobolization towards settling Palestinian in Zionist communities and communes was thanks to radical socialists.

Where is that good old leftist spirit when we need it now.

-Bill, otherwise know as Kraichgauer

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21 Apr 2011, 2:43 pm

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Where do you get the idea that a majority of the palestinians would welcome integration? what are you basing that off of?

In terms of integration into the Occupying state as full citizens with legal and political rights, that's somewhat common sense. But polls indicate that Palestinians prefer a multicultural one state.

http://www.neareastconsulting.com/surve ... q_q27.php/

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

A " One state" solution is not desirable...Jews know all too well what will happen...the birthrate of Arabs will swallow the very essence and purpose of Israel..as a state for national self determination of Jews and in the long term it will mean a gradual return to Jewish minority status and loss of political power..This would not be another lebanon..this would like Iraq and the Jews would be the Kurds in a perpetual place of being a discriminated minority. Its not going to happen.

Uh... no. The UN could supervise the transiton from Jewish enclave state to multicultural nation and the US could use it's foreign aid to Israel (or whatever the new state is called) as a carrot (continuing it) or stick (withdrawing it) to encourage defense of minority rights.

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Jerusalem today is a multi-faith, multi-ethnic city today..ever been there? I go there twice a year..very open...You want to see real medievalism, i suggest you focus your attention on that respect toward countries surrounding Israel where REAL religious laws are in place. As for Zionism being " escapist and outdated"...well thats nice and dandy to say, but Zionism grew out of the 1880s when Russian Jews were restricted to the Pale, Jews were seen in a negative light as bankers, christ killers, etc...Escaping from your problems and finding a way out is not bad..its very courageous. To even suggest that Jews are probably safer outside Israel than in it is utterly ridicoulous. Yeah..it must be less safe in Israel than to have been or be a minority in Europe or in real Medieval law type countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia...its better for jews to just shutup and be quiet and be second class citizens than exert any political rights and ideas. Its not outdated...its actually proper and correct. I am a proud Zionist, as I support a Jewish homeland. BTW, those founders of Zionism were Socialists and communists..might want to look into that.

The debate isn't on early settlements, the debate is on the increasingly expassionist and occupying state created after WWII largely by the UN. And, if most of the idealistic socialists who founded the zionist movement saw it, they would be sickened.

As for the bolded statement, please cease and desist from moving on to another topic. You remind me of this charlatan.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW87GRmunMY&feature=related[/youtube]

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21 Apr 2011, 3:44 pm

Chocolate IS the best, damn it!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

John_Browning
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21 Apr 2011, 5:49 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

In other words, seed and breed out Israel.

Getting the UN involved in something is a really good sign that something is a horrible idea!

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21 Apr 2011, 6:11 pm

John_Browning wrote:

In other words, seed and breed out Israel.

As opposed to the brilliant idea of having a desperate, angry, and starving population surround an relatively prosperous enclave State?

John_Browning wrote:

Getting the UN involved in something is a really good sign that something is a horrible idea!

Are you basing this on the precedent of the UN pratcially founding the modern State of Israel?

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ruveyn
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21 Apr 2011, 6:14 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Getting the UN involved in something is a really good sign that something is a horrible idea!

Indeed. The U.N. despite its promising beginnings has became a filthy third world pit of corruption.

The U.N. is a kaffee klatch for the dregs of humanity.

ruveyn

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21 Apr 2011, 6:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Indeed. The U.N. despite its promising beginnings has became a filthy third world pit of corruption.

The U.N. is a kaffee klatch for the dregs of humanity.

ruveyn

I really hope that in 50 years, when the world is multipolar rather than dominated by a sole superpower, that your grandchildren don't harbour such a contemptous attitude. Regardless, I'm sure the $5 billion the UN posses aren't at all neccessary to deliver the countless services it provides.

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ruveyn
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21 Apr 2011, 6:42 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Indeed. The U.N. despite its promising beginnings has became a filthy third world pit of corruption.

The U.N. is a kaffee klatch for the dregs of humanity.

ruveyn

It is barely enough to pay New York City for the parking tickets owed by U.N. personel who park illegally.

ruveyn

John_Browning
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21 Apr 2011, 7:17 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

In other words, seed and breed out Israel.

As opposed to the brilliant idea of having a desperate, angry, and starving population surround an relatively prosperous enclave State?

Their chances are better than if they allow themselves to rot from the inside out by integrating the Palestinians and giving them political representation in Tel Aviv.

Master_Pedant wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Getting the UN involved in something is a really good sign that something is a horrible idea!

Are you basing this on the precedent of the UN pratcially founding the modern State of Israel?

The UN would have allowed the 1948 mandate to be stalled by the Arabs if England and the US did not force the UN to either act or leave a power vacuum in the region. Since then, the UN regularly passes resolutions (that luckily Israel can't be forced to abide by) that seek to undermine Israel's national security.

Kraichgauer
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21 Apr 2011, 9:18 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

In other words, seed and breed out Israel.

As opposed to the brilliant idea of having a desperate, angry, and starving population surround an relatively prosperous enclave State?

Their chances are better than if they allow themselves to rot from the inside out by integrating the Palestinians and giving them political representation in Tel Aviv.

Master_Pedant wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Getting the UN involved in something is a really good sign that something is a horrible idea!

Are you basing this on the precedent of the UN pratcially founding the modern State of Israel?

There is Arab representation in the Israeli Knesset. There are Palestinian citizens of Israel who not only serve in the Knesset, but also serve with high rank and distinction in the Israeli army.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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