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Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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hyperlexian
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29 Feb 2012, 7:56 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:

this is a good example. you met one radical feminist once. that is a sharp contrast to the hudreds of moderate feminists you have probably known in your life. somehow people think that the one radical defines the entire movement.


He's met more than one radical feminist, he's met me, as well. He doesn't have any problem with me, as far as I'm aware.

I don't like how 'radical feminist' has become synonymous with 'insane misandry', rather than, um, a feminist who believe in the necessity of revolution. There isn't the huge gap between real rad fems and moderate feminists that people imagine exists.

yeah, thanks for the correction - i don't actually know what "radical feminist' means. do you have any good links where i can read up on it? i may be one as well.


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puddingmouse
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29 Feb 2012, 8:03 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
[
yeah, thanks for the correction - i don't actually know what "radical feminist' means. do you have any good links where i can read up on it? i may be one as well.


I can't think of any rad fem writers I agree with completely, I just like many of the ideas they come out with (though some do reek of BS). Just wiki it.

Radical feminism seeks to get to the root of inequality - patriarchy itself. Radical feminists see patriarchy as the oldest (and deepest) form of oppression. I love that idea because all my studies of religion, anthropology and history have confirmed it. At first, I was loathe to admit it, because I didn't want to find myself agreeing with such an unfashionable political group. Getting out there and seeing patriarchy in real life, particularly in other cultures, is what finally radicalised me.

In a nutshell, a radical feminist believes that the very patriarchal structure of human societies has to go. This is very idealistic, but my heart agrees with it.


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29 Feb 2012, 10:53 pm

Urgh. I actually have tried looking on the Internet for modern rad fems (after saying I agree with the central theories of radical feminism, which I do). It turns out that a lot in the movement are critical of trans people and PIV sex. Ew. I'm all for collective action, but why do they have to purge all the people who support trans rights and like PIV sex? I guess I have to go off and make 'puddingmouse feminism', now. :lol:


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Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 10:55 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Ew. I'm all for collective action, but why do they have to purge all the people who support trans rights and like PIV sex? I guess I have to go off and make 'puddingmouse feminism', now. :lol:


In Sweden, trans people have to be sterilised and any frozen sperm destroyed if they want to change sex on their ID card. Radfems in action, peeps.



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29 Feb 2012, 11:00 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Ew. I'm all for collective action, but why do they have to purge all the people who support trans rights and like PIV sex? I guess I have to go off and make 'puddingmouse feminism', now. :lol:


In Sweden, trans people have to be sterilised if they want to change sex. Radfems in action, peeps.


That's disgusting and I don't know where otherwise intelligent women like Gloria Steinem pull this s**t out from.

I guess I know how you feel with you being a nationalist, now?


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29 Feb 2012, 11:14 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Urgh. I actually have tried looking on the Internet for modern rad fems (after saying I agree with the central theories of radical feminism, which I do). It turns out that a lot in the movement are critical of trans people and PIV sex. Ew. I'm all for collective action, but why do they have to purge all the people who support trans rights and like PIV sex? I guess I have to go off and make 'puddingmouse feminism', now. :lol:



Their idea is that in order for women to be independent of("liberated from")men, they cannot depend on men for sexual gratification and must turn to other women for it. Their transphobia has to do with their asinine conspiracy theories that men are trying to infiltrate their movement by means of MTF transsexuals; whereas FTM transsexuals are "traitors" because they reject their inborn womanhood.



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29 Feb 2012, 11:16 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I guess I know how you feel with you being a nationalist, now?


Well, not nationalist as in far-right. National conservative with a liberal social bent. :)



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29 Feb 2012, 11:20 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Urgh. I actually have tried looking on the Internet for modern rad fems (after saying I agree with the central theories of radical feminism, which I do). It turns out that a lot in the movement are critical of trans people and PIV sex. Ew. I'm all for collective action, but why do they have to purge all the people who support trans rights and like PIV sex? I guess I have to go off and make 'puddingmouse feminism', now. :lol:



Their idea is that in order for women to be independent of("liberated from")men, they cannot depend on men for sexual gratification and must turn to other women for it. Their transphobia has to do with their asinine conspiracy theories that men are trying to infiltrate their movement by means of MTF transsexuals; whereas FTM transsexuals are "traitors" because they reject their inborn womanhood.


Um, PIV doesn't mean you 'depend on men' for gratification. I wouldn't be devastated if I never had PIV sex again, but I'm glad I can, y'know?

The transphobia is utterly stupid. I find second-wave and third-wave feminism equally problematic. I want a fourth-wave.


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29 Feb 2012, 11:21 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I guess I know how you feel with you being a nationalist, now?


Well, not nationalist as in far-right. National conservative with a liberal social bent. :)


Most self-described nationalists give the movement a bad name. So you know how I feel.


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Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 11:21 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
The transphobia is utterly stupid. I find second-wave and third-wave feminism equally problematic. I want a fourth-wave.


How about dispensing with the bloody lot and coming up with something normal that isn't exclusionist? No, that's too simple.



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29 Feb 2012, 11:22 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Most self-described nationalists give the movement a bad name.


I'm a national conservative that dislikes a large proportion of his own countrymen.

I seem to take inspiration from the same politicians that they do, just in a different way:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG2UayU62_o[/youtube]



Last edited by Tequila on 29 Feb 2012, 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

puddingmouse
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29 Feb 2012, 11:23 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
The transphobia is utterly stupid. I find second-wave and third-wave feminism equally problematic. I want a fourth-wave.


How about dispensing with the bloody lot and coming up with something normal that isn't exclusionist? No, that's too simple.


There's nothing exclusionist about feminism. The name is a bit unfortunate, but it arose out of historical necessity. What is really exclusionist is patriarchy.


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Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 11:24 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
What is really exclusionist is patriarchy.


I need to look up this concept. I don't like the sound of it, 'cos it sounds like man-bashing again.



hyperlexian
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29 Feb 2012, 11:27 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
What is really exclusionist is patriarchy.


I need to look up this concept. I don't like the sound of it, 'cos it sounds like man-bashing again.

what do you mean "again"? i didn't see any in this thread (or on the site currently).


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puddingmouse
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29 Feb 2012, 11:27 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
What is really exclusionist is patriarchy.


I need to look up this concept. I don't like the sound of it, 'cos it sounds like man-bashing again.


:wall:
If you want to read up on patriarchy, just read the Bible, study anthropology or history. Or just hang out with immigrant communities like I did. Or talk to some old women about their lives. It's there.


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Tequila
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29 Feb 2012, 11:29 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
It's there.


Oh, you mean it's that thing that I keep going on about when I bang on about Islam and stuff? Ah, I see now. That bit where people were shipped away to the Magdalene laundries and stuff and that. Oh. You should have said.