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marshall
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27 Nov 2012, 12:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
adb wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The Republican Party is in mortal danger of going down the drain if they do not wake up to reality. The current bunch has completely shut their eyes to the needs and conditions under which ordinary folk live and work. This leaves the Democrat liberals free to sell their lie, that prosperity can be had just by printing money. The liberal program at full speed will drive the productive business people out of this country.

ruveyn


Good riddance.

The productive business people are the ones footing the bill for all those government services you support.


If bearers of technological expertise depart our shores (and they very well might) the U.S. would become an agricultural nation once more inside of a generation. To Mr. "good riddance" just remember which class of people made your computer and the internet possible. It was not political numbskulls like Al Gore.

The U.S. either survives through technological excellence or it perishes for lack of it.

ruveyn


No. Kick out the greed-driven narcissists with an overblown sense of entitlement and more enlightened people will take over. Our scientists and engineers do not need to be slaves to the dumb-as-a-doorknob corporate suits and wall street shysters. You have to remember these people had to be at least borderline ret*ds to seriously believe that housing prices would rise forever. What the current owners of the corporate world have is what I would call "street smarts", i.e. they are good at finding ways to abuse the system and swindle people in their favor. Such knuckle-daggers don't have a curious bone in their body.



LKL
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27 Nov 2012, 5:28 pm

somewhat relevant to the direction that this thread has taken:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/magaz ... wanted=all



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2012, 5:31 pm

marshall wrote:

No. Kick out the greed-driven narcissists with an overblown sense of entitlement and more enlightened people will take over. Our scientists and engineers do not need to be slaves to the dumb-as-a-doorknob corporate suits and wall street shysters. You have to remember these people had to be at least borderline ret*ds to seriously believe that housing prices would rise forever. What the current owners of the corporate world have is what I would call "street smarts", i.e. they are good at finding ways to abuse the system and swindle people in their favor. Such knuckle-daggers don't have a curious bone in their body.


If you are proposing to rid ourselves of Crony Capitalism, I gladly concur.

ruveyn



marshall
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27 Nov 2012, 5:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

No. Kick out the greed-driven narcissists with an overblown sense of entitlement and more enlightened people will take over. Our scientists and engineers do not need to be slaves to the dumb-as-a-doorknob corporate suits and wall street shysters. You have to remember these people had to be at least borderline ret*ds to seriously believe that housing prices would rise forever. What the current owners of the corporate world have is what I would call "street smarts", i.e. they are good at finding ways to abuse the system and swindle people in their favor. Such knuckle-daggers don't have a curious bone in their body.


If you are proposing to rid ourselves of Crony Capitalism, I gladly concur.

ruveyn


Crony Capitalism and Pure Capitalism are one in the same. If you think otherwise you've either lying or have never won a game of monopoly. In the real life version of Monopoly you start out by wheeling and dealing with teams of patent lawyers in order to steal someone else's idea for profit. You team up with people when you can and then dump them when they try to get their fair slice of the pie. Then when you get big enough you come up with more ingenious rent-seeking methods and wheel and deal to crush your way to crushing the competition.



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2012, 6:01 pm

marshall wrote:
[
Crony Capitalism and Pure Capitalism are one in the same. If you think otherwise you've either lying or have never won a game of monopoly. In the real life version of Monopoly you start


They are not. Real capitalism does not operate on subsidies and handouts.

Historic Example: Union Pacific Rail was built on a sweetheart deal between the government and the railroad promoters. That is crony capitalism. The Great Northern was built without a single subsidy. That is real capitalism.

And what government handout did Ed Land get when he introduced instant photography to the public?

When the Freres Wright developed their flying machine they did it out of their own pocket. $1200 circa 1903 dollars. That is real capitalism. Samuel Langley got $50,000 form Congress to develop his flying machine which was a complete failure. That is crony capitalism.

The transistor was invented at Bell Telephone Labs and released in 1947. Not one penny of government money there. That is real capitalism.

ruveyn



LKL
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27 Nov 2012, 6:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
[
Crony Capitalism and Pure Capitalism are one in the same. If you think otherwise you've either lying or have never won a game of monopoly. In the real life version of Monopoly you start


They are not. Real capitalism does not operate on subsidies and handouts.

Historic Example: Union Pacific Rail was built on a sweetheart deal between the government and the railroad promoters. That is crony capitalism. The Great Northern was built without a single subsidy. That is real capitalism.

And what government handout did Ed Land get when he introduced instant photography to the public?

When the Freres Wright developed their flying machine they did it out of their own pocket. $1200 circa 1903 dollars. That is real capitalism. Samuel Langley got $50,000 form Congress to develop his flying machine which was a complete failure. That is crony capitalism.

The transistor was invented at Bell Telephone Labs and released in 1947. Not one penny of government money there. That is real capitalism.

ruveyn

So nothing internet-based is "real" capitalism, eh?

this sounds like a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy to me, Ruveyn.



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2012, 7:49 pm

LKL wrote:
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So nothing internet-based is "real" capitalism, eh?

this sounds like a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy to me, Ruveyn.


Not so. All of the privately developed apps for the net created -after- the government opened it to the public and business are genuine innovative products. If we used your logic everything that used some product delivered on the government funded roads is a government subsidy. No so.

Ask a simple question: did the government grant or did it not a tax break or cash subsidy to a firm in developing a product. If the answer is no, you have a true Scot. If the answer is yes you a Angus MacCrony

ruveyn



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27 Nov 2012, 8:30 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Seems like the popular topic currently. The GOP lost to unpopular president with country at war with a struggling economy, for all intents and purposes they should of won. The lost seats in a senate that they should of gained control of. Was it the candidate or his policies? 'Or did Obama just run an effective campaign? Some blame the hurricane.

A lot of people are blaming the 'far right' of the Republican party, depends of who you consider 'far right'. A lot of people are blaming the Tea Party, depends on who you consider the Tea Party. Romney was a Northeast Republican, he wasn't really a conservative in any sense besides culturally although he was easy to caricature him as such due to his wealth and Mormon faith.

I think the Obama campaign was extremely effective driving issues like abortion, gay marriage, contraceptives, rape, etc to the forefront of the race with the dumb comments/positions of other Republicans. Those comments didn't really reflect Romney's beliefs but he did trend socially conservative. Not only did this hurt Romney, it was disastrous down ticket and was directly responsible for losing multiple seats in the senate that they should of won.

I don't think pro-life positions need be abandoned, I still think it can be an winning issue if one isn't too extreme or make stupid comments. There is no way to defend rape and attacking contraceptives and sex education is a generational step backward on the issue while also being counter-productive to the goal of less abortion. I don't think the Tea Party is to blame on this, I don't think this was a Tea Party issue or a new position, it's a social conservative issue and has been present with in the GOP for awhile. I definitely agree however that social conservatism needs to be de-empathized from future campaigns however.

I'll continue on but I'd like to hear what other people think.


The economy was trending well.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0 ... -election/

More importantly, the Obama campaign really did a good job of wedding social issues and economic issues. Contraceptives and accessible abortion are massively relevant to women's economic prospects, for instance. Most of the election, though, really did focus on the "Romney is a plutocrat who won't create shared prosperity line". In many down ballot races that helped immensely. A populist theme even helped a Democrat in a state that didn't go for Obama (North Dakota) get to the Senate.


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28 Nov 2012, 4:30 pm

Voter suppression will be a continued GOP strategy

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZW3Nva26ZM[/youtube]



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28 Nov 2012, 7:09 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Voter suppression will be a continued GOP strategy

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZW3Nva26ZM[/youtube]


Well Florida is a blue state so I guess all that "voter suppression" was all for naught, not that there ever was any.


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