ZIMMERMAN VERDICT IS IN - NOT GUILTY

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thomas81
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17 Jul 2013, 3:34 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Max000 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

There is no evidence that Zimmerman 'picked a fight'.

There is plenty of evidence. You just don't want to see it. If a video tape surfaced of Zimmerman shooting Martin in cold blood, it wouldn't be enough evidence for you.

Under questioning, the cops told Zimmerman that they had the whole thing on video. Zimmerman's response was, "Thank God."

This has been confirmed.

That's exactly what you'd expect a guilty person to say when you have something that will prove they are lying about what happened, right?

1) maybe he was calling their bluff.

2) In his mind, he did not act in an irresponsible way. Perhaps in many ways and in a perverse way he can't be blamed because its the sort of batshit sociopathic culture that he has been conditioned into.
If the trial had taken place in any other country the court would likely have a had a very different view into the level of his culpibility.

2) it was never a question of whether or not he did the deed. The point is he provoked Martin into attacking him.

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Raptor
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17 Jul 2013, 3:38 pm

Raptor wrote:

Has anyone noticed that the individuals calling Z a murderer are also the gun haters?
This is just another angle for them.

Misslizard wrote:

No,but he has given them a foot in the door.I don't know if he had any training for that gun,and neighborhood watch is not suppose to confront people.Call the ones who are trained,the cops.In my opinion(and that's all it is),he did not act with reasonable care.If Trayvon was that menacing,why did he approach him?I'm not confronting someone who looks threatening.I'll wait I'm my car,like anyone with common sense would have.If he had used good judgement ,none of this would have happened.

AceOfSpades wrote:

I don't know what that has to do with one's views on gun laws. I'm pro-gun and I think that Zimmerman should've gotten manslaughter instead of murder since mens rea is much harder to establish. I don't know whether or not he intended to murder Trayvon but the fact that he went out of his way to pursue him lead to an unnecessary death.

It’s not even for certain that Zimmerman stalked Martin. And manslaughter was not what the prosecutor charged but is an automatic add on per state law to a murder charge being tried.

Quote:

I don't know what that has to do with one's views on gun laws.

Look at who’s vehemently insisting on Z’s guilt and their posting history on the gunz-r-bad threads. It doesn’t take a genius to see the connection AND some of them (so far) have already blamed our “gun culture” :roll:

and SYG laws.

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thomas81
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17 Jul 2013, 3:39 pm

Misslizard wrote:

[img]

I don't look anything like a that thing under the bridge(if you mean me).You must miss Arrant.And I don't eat boiled frog legs.

pretty sure its a fish tail.

Yum.

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thomas81
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17 Jul 2013, 3:41 pm

Raptor wrote:

and SYG laws.

swings both ways, my feathered star spangled chum.

Particulary considering the NRA stumped up or at least part-sponsored Zimmerman's legal fees.

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Misslizard
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17 Jul 2013, 3:46 pm

Kids here have to go to hunter education classes before they can get a license,they learn safety with firearms.Did Z take any class that anyone knows of in gun safety?Don't you volunteer at a range Raptor?I'm sure you have seen a few people that were to stupid to be trusted with a firearm.Like Barney Fife?I know a DA that was riding shotgun in a truck with a rifle and discharged it thru the floorboard.I would not want him as my hunting partner.

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zer0netgain
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17 Jul 2013, 3:47 pm

Max000 wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

The rule of law is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Reasonable doubt has nothing to do with this There is no reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Martin. Thats not an issue. Zimmerman admitted it. His defense was that he was justified.

You still don't get it.

The state had to PROVE that it WAS NOT done in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

They failed.

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17 Jul 2013, 3:55 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

and SYG laws.

swings both ways, my feathered star spangled chum.

Particulary considering the NRA stumped up or at least part-sponsored Zimmerman's legal fees.

Yes, it's no secret that's one of the services the NRA offers in defensive shooting cases and apparently they felt this qualified.
Also, Zimmerman's defense attorneys took this case pro bono.
So what????

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Last edited by Raptor on 17 Jul 2013, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Misslizard
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17 Jul 2013, 3:55 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

[img]

I don't look anything like a that thing under the bridge(if you mean me).You must miss Arrant.And I don't eat boiled frog legs.

pretty sure its a fish tail.

Yum.

Yes,it is.Maybe I should get a better pair of glasses.I do like fish fried crunchy with hush puppies and picked green tomatoes,that is yummy.Not boiled.eww.
I will get a pot of coffee ready for those skunks Tequila :lol:

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Tequila
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17 Jul 2013, 3:56 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Max000 wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

The rule of law is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Reasonable doubt has nothing to do with this There is no reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Martin. Thats not an issue. Zimmerman admitted it. His defense was that he was justified.

You still don't get it.

The state had to PROVE that it WAS NOT done in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

They failed.

Exactly.

They had to prove that Zimmerman murdered (or committed manslaughter, which was the other charge the prosecution levelled against the defendant) Trayvon Martin.

They couldn't prove either of those things. If they could, Zimmerman would have been in jail.

Max000 wants the state to lock people up for murder basically without proof because someone was killed. He wants killings to be treated as murder regardless of the circumstances or whether there is evidence.

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17 Jul 2013, 4:03 pm

Raptor wrote:

I am by my own admission a gun nut and now, at least according to Max000, I'm also rabid, out of control, and I murder people in unprecedented numbers.
:roll:

Whether or not you murder people yourself, you support it and you seem to think that it is something to be proud of. You make us look like a bunch of barbarians.

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17 Jul 2013, 4:04 pm

Misslizard wrote:

In Florida you have 'demonstrate firearm proficiency' to obtain a concealed carry license so yes Zimmerman did know gun safety. He also completed a 14 week citizens' police academy provided by the local Sherrif's department and was very interested in a career in law enforcement.

thomas81
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17 Jul 2013, 4:15 pm

Tequila wrote:

Max000 wants the state to lock people up for murder basically without proof because someone was killed. He wants killings to be treated as murder regardless of the circumstances or whether there is evidence.

You can't see the woods for the trees, can you? The point is he chose to ignore police advice and instead take the law into his own hands which provoked the incident to violence, unnecessarilly. In most other jurisdictions that alone would be an offence.

This gives a wink and a nod to other 'have a go sherriffs' that would shoot first and ask questions later. Mob justice has always led to barbarism and always will.

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17 Jul 2013, 4:25 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

I'm glad he's not a cop,that would be scary.I am not as informed as i should be on the concealed carry laws.People here do carry guns without concealed permits.Some would say it's too back woodsy here.The majority of people ride around with a gun all the time.You used to see gun racks in the parking lot with two maybe three guns.A shotgun and usually a .22.The thieves started getting bad so people stopped using racks.The guns are still in there,but not openly displayed.In hunting season you can go in the stores and people have pistols in their holsters.No one thinks they are robbers.I've had men in full camo with baklavas and rifles come in my house,if you ride a four-wheeler it gets cold.Some people would think they look like terrorists..Just because Martin had a hoodie on he is suppose to be threatening?All kids wear hoodies.I have a hoodie.I'm short with black hair,if I have my hoodie on,will someone shoot me because of how I look?
But I will admit to being really naive about what goes on in more populated areas.Might be best to not know and stay away from them.

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17 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

Raptor wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

It’s not even for certain that Zimmerman stalked Martin. And manslaughter was not what the prosecutor charged but is an automatic add on per state law to a murder charge being tried.

The rest of the audio is unclear (especially when it comes to who was screaming) and there's no consensus among the audio experts but Zimmerman himself answered yes when the dispatcher asked if he was following him.

Raptor wrote:

Quote:

I don't know what that has to do with one's views on gun laws.

and SYG laws.

It's more about racial politics than gun views. Because of how polarized politics is you get one issue spilling into another.

thomas81 wrote:

When it comes to a murder charge the devil is in the details. Especially when it comes to establishing mens rea. Also, dispatchers aren't police officers and their orders aren't official but it does add to the case for manslaughter.

sliqua-jcooter
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17 Jul 2013, 4:41 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Particulary considering the NRA paid out an insurance policy for Zimmerman's legal fees.

Fixed it for you. Again.

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17 Jul 2013, 4:43 pm

Misslizard wrote:

Kids here have to go to hunter education classes before they can get a license,they learn safety with firearms.

Most states require persons born after a certain date to attend a hunter safety course as a pre-requisite to obtaining a hunting license. They typically cover more than just gun safety. That is for hunting ONLY which, like driving, is a licensed privilege and not a right.

Quote:

Did Z take any class that anyone knows of in gun safety?

If he had a carry permit issued in Florida or any one of several other states he did have to provide evidence of attending a class on firearm safety before being licensed. Most of those classes cover the legal aspects of defensive shooting, too. The one we have at the shooting range does cover that in classroom lecture.

Quote:

Don't you volunteer at a range Raptor?I'm sure you have seen a few people that were to stupid to be trusted with a firearm.

Yes, and most all of our shooters are safe and follow the rules. Most infractions are relatively minor and the major ones are actually rare. Being a shooting range we tend to be rather stringent about safety. To be honest, the worse time is just before hunting season and all the hunters come out to sight in rifles, pattern shotguns, and to practice their shooting. The ones that are hunters but not regular shooters tend to be the most unsafe from not handling their guns as much and not being around as many people when they do handle them. Still, less than half are like this but those few weeks before hunting season are the hairiest for RO’s.
Having said all that, our shooting range has been in operation for over 50 years and there has never been an accidental shooting there. Not one.

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Last edited by Raptor on 17 Jul 2013, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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