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b9
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07 Oct 2016, 8:23 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do believe what Holmes is saying is essentially correct. I concur with most of what he says. People have to take responsibility for their own lives, rather than blame "society."

But I do believe there is still subtle racism going on--which is difficult to prove through logical means (e.g., facts and figures). I see it with my own eyes. And I know people who have been a victim of it.

Still, these "victims" I know take responsibility for their own lives, and live successful lives despite the macrocosmic situation. They don't riot in the streets. They take care of their kids. They instill universally virtuous values.


you're always in a new york state of mind.
it is educational.



adifferentname
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07 Oct 2016, 8:42 am

b9 wrote:
oh look, you're just agonizing over rubbish mate. get over it. i couldn't care less.


Ah, I see! You're here to troll, but as you came ill-equipped to deal with someone who doesn't respond to your inept insinuations with the expected emotional defensiveness, you have no choice but to turn-tail and run.

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flowery s**t most often goes to seed anyway so it's best to just keep walking by.


Off you trot then.



adifferentname
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07 Oct 2016, 8:51 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do believe what Holmes is saying is essentially correct. I concur with most of what he says. People have to take responsibility for their own lives, rather than blame "society."


Their own lives, and the people whose lives depend on them.

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But I do believe there is still subtle racism going on--which is difficult to prove through logical means (e.g., facts and figures). I see it with my own eyes. And I know people who have been a victim of it.


There's plenty of overt racism going on, and it's not going away any time soon. The best we can achieve is to legislate against racism, as we already have done. Anything beyond that creates justification for antagonism and further division.

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Still, these "victims" I know take responsibility for their own lives, and live successful lives despite the macrocosmic situation. They don't riot in the streets. They take care of their kids. They instill universally virtuous values.


Which is, I believe, the beginnings of any solution to the problem of social inequality in the US. Economic inequality cannot be legislated away without creating new problems.



AspE
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07 Oct 2016, 9:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do believe what Holmes is saying is essentially correct. I concur with most of what he says. People have to take responsibility for their own lives, rather than blame "society."

But I do believe there is still subtle racism going on--which is difficult to prove through logical means (e.g., facts and figures). I see it with my own eyes. And I know people who have been a victim of it.

Still, these "victims" I know take responsibility for their own lives, and live successful lives despite the macrocosmic situation. They don't riot in the streets. They take care of their kids. They instill universally virtuous values.

It's not difficult to prove with facts and figures.



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07 Oct 2016, 9:45 am

L_Holmes wrote:
Well now you know that this is not my intent, so I'd appreciate it very much if you stopped insinuating that I believe crazy things which I never said, like that all blacks have genetic criminality.

The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.

I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.

Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.

I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?


You see the surface symptoms, but you fail to connect it to our outrageously horrible history of racism and mistreatment which continues (albeit to a somewhat lesser degree of obviousness) to this day. How about you take responsibility for the problems of your country?



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07 Oct 2016, 11:26 am

nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.


:roll:


If you disagree, provide examples.


There is no anti-white racism on WP. No one is calling for whites to lose their rights, or accusing them of committing most crimes, or breeding like rabbits. And I'm so white, my DNA probably risks being sunburned! So it's not like that I'm of some other race attacking whites. Being critical of bad treatment of others because of race doesn't mean you're a racist or a self-hating white.


Dude, I've never been racist in my life and I can tell you that I do see an "Anti-White" movement. It's called "We Better Check Our Privilege" Movement and I'm damn tired of it. Hillary Clinton was even a part of it by saying "Whites need to change their ways". What a load of crap if I ever heard it.

And another thing, you always shoot these accusations out of your mouth without any backup proof. Adifferentname is right - show some facts.


Whether you like the "check your privilege" people or not, the fact is, no one is calling whites inferior, or culturally and/or genetically criminally inclined. The rights of us whites are not in any danger when someone asks us to give some thought to the white privilege which we so take for granted that we don't even acknowledge the existence of.
White privilege is being able to walk of drive anywhere, at any time of day or night, without fear of the police treating us with a different standard. That's not so with blacks. So yes, we do have privilege that comes with race, and because we do have that privilege, we can recognize it, and do something about extending the same equal treatment to non-whites that we enjoy.


I can't walk anywhere at night without worrying that I'm going to get mugged, raped or killed - just like the white woman down at our Walmart. Sounds like some privileges have been taken away. No one says anything about that - do they? Nope. Instead Walmart holds a vigil for the ass who did it. Explain that craziness.


I'm sure black women get mugged, too. That, and it's relatively uncommon for anyone to get mugged, while blacks are hassled by cops way too often when they haven't done anything. And the fact remains, the police are supposed to be trusted by everyone, which is difficult for many blacks, as their history with the police dictates.
I agree, having a vigil for a criminal is ridiculous.


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07 Oct 2016, 11:29 am

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact remains, white supremacists throw around the term, "anti-white," along with absurd talk of white genocide, and how whites are already a minority, when speaking against government action for non-whites, or even talk sympathetic toward non-whites.


The fact remains, anyone stupid enough to consider me, or anyone else, a white supremacist for pointing out actual anti-white racism is an ignorant bigot. I'm not sure why you wish to be an advocate for stupidity, but hey, I respect your right to. Just don't expect me to ever agree or offer you support in your endeavour.

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Sure, all copes shouldn't be painted with the same brush. But at the same time, they are the ones with all the power, plus the guns, which has to be taken into account, as they all have the potential to be bad.


And yet they're the ones who are evidently showing restraint, despite being far more likely to be shot than an innocent, unarmed person of any flavour is by cops. They do a dangerous job that the overwhelming majority of people supporting BLM don't seem to have any appreciation for (in both logical applications of the word appreciation). Using cops as a lightning rod of resentment for every single problem faced by black communities in the USA is only ever going to breed further resentment and increase antagonism between black people and cops.

Dox47 wrote:
I see a lot of Aspies get themselves into trouble with this line of thought, since it isn't always obvious how treacherous the waters being waded into are, and as an individual going off personal experience and observation, it's very easy to innocently blunder into offensive sounding ideas about racial differences.


Right. It's got to the point where you can't discuss practical solutions without a bunch of self-righteous yahoos showing up with torches and pitchforks. And let me assure anyone who might dismiss that as rhetoric, I don't make that comparison lightly. Despite all the progress we've supposedly made since the 1690's, there are some people for whom there is nothing quite as satisfying as a good old-fashioned witch hunt. Just ask British astrophysicist Matt Taylor, who performed an incredible feat, and was immediately condemned and torn to pieces by the 'Court of Public Opinion' for wearing the wrong clothes.


No, I said the use of the term "anti-white" is commonly used by white supremacists.


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07 Oct 2016, 12:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The fact remains, white supremacists throw around the term, "anti-white," along with absurd talk of white genocide, and how whites are already a minority, when speaking against government action for non-whites, or even talk sympathetic toward non-whites.


The fact remains, anyone stupid enough to consider me, or anyone else, a white supremacist for pointing out actual anti-white racism is an ignorant bigot. I'm not sure why you wish to be an advocate for stupidity, but hey, I respect your right to. Just don't expect me to ever agree or offer you support in your endeavour.

Quote:
Sure, all copes shouldn't be painted with the same brush. But at the same time, they are the ones with all the power, plus the guns, which has to be taken into account, as they all have the potential to be bad.


And yet they're the ones who are evidently showing restraint, despite being far more likely to be shot than an innocent, unarmed person of any flavour is by cops. They do a dangerous job that the overwhelming majority of people supporting BLM don't seem to have any appreciation for (in both logical applications of the word appreciation). Using cops as a lightning rod of resentment for every single problem faced by black communities in the USA is only ever going to breed further resentment and increase antagonism between black people and cops.

Dox47 wrote:
I see a lot of Aspies get themselves into trouble with this line of thought, since it isn't always obvious how treacherous the waters being waded into are, and as an individual going off personal experience and observation, it's very easy to innocently blunder into offensive sounding ideas about racial differences.


Right. It's got to the point where you can't discuss practical solutions without a bunch of self-righteous yahoos showing up with torches and pitchforks. And let me assure anyone who might dismiss that as rhetoric, I don't make that comparison lightly. Despite all the progress we've supposedly made since the 1690's, there are some people for whom there is nothing quite as satisfying as a good old-fashioned witch hunt. Just ask British astrophysicist Matt Taylor, who performed an incredible feat, and was immediately condemned and torn to pieces by the 'Court of Public Opinion' for wearing the wrong clothes.


No, I said the use of the term "anti-white" is commonly used by white supremacists.


No. What you actually said was:

Kraichgauer wrote:
I would advise you not to make so much use of the word, "anti-white," as many see that as a dead give away for racists, even if that was not what you had intended.


The intimation is perfectly clear, especially in light of your decision to distance yourself from your actual statement, wherein you suggested it was a "dead give away". Perhaps you should refrain from casting thinly-veiled aspersions and concentrate your energies on contending the points you disagree with.



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07 Oct 2016, 5:17 pm

adifferentname-

No, I said just that: that's a term used by white nationalists. If you took it as an accusation of being a white supremacist, you're reading more into that post than was there.


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07 Oct 2016, 6:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname-

No, I said just that: that's a term used by white nationalists. If you took it as an accusation of being a white supremacist, you're reading more into that post than was there.


I quoted you word for word. You most certainly did not say "just that".

Again, here is the quote in full.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I would advise you not to make so much use of the word, "anti-white," as many see that as a dead give away for racists, even if that was not what you had intended.


I would, in turn, advise you not to deny saying the things that you have said. I would advise, especially, that you refrain from doubling-down on the denial when the things you've said can be very easily copied and pasted. I would further advise you that, typically, when people engage in such behaviour, many perceive the reason to be a desire to hide from realisation that they have erred. And finally, I would advise anyone who has come to the mistaken conclusion that I am racist should feel free to express such, as I would happily find the time to explain to them why they're a bigoted imbecile.

JohnPowell wrote:
I think it says a lot that someone saying "anti-white" is just seen as a joke or a racist. If 'anti-racists' were serious about combating racism they would have to at least start with a level playing field.


Indeed. One wonders what a white South African might make of it considering the current climate there. Of course, to appreciate that, it's necessary to understand that this forum is available on the World Wide Web rather than confined to a private network servicing a University safe space in California.



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07 Oct 2016, 9:30 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname-

No, I said just that: that's a term used by white nationalists. If you took it as an accusation of being a white supremacist, you're reading more into that post than was there.


I quoted you word for word. You most certainly did not say "just that".

Again, here is the quote in full.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I would advise you not to make so much use of the word, "anti-white," as many see that as a dead give away for racists, even if that was not what you had intended.


I would, in turn, advise you not to deny saying the things that you have said. I would advise, especially, that you refrain from doubling-down on the denial when the things you've said can be very easily copied and pasted. I would further advise you that, typically, when people engage in such behaviour, many perceive the reason to be a desire to hide from realisation that they have erred. And finally, I would advise anyone who has come to the mistaken conclusion that I am racist should feel free to express such, as I would happily find the time to explain to them why they're a bigoted imbecile.

JohnPowell wrote:
I think it says a lot that someone saying "anti-white" is just seen as a joke or a racist. If 'anti-racists' were serious about combating racism they would have to at least start with a level playing field.


Indeed. One wonders what a white South African might make of it considering the current climate there. Of course, to appreciate that, it's necessary to understand that this forum is available on the World Wide Web rather than confined to a private network servicing a University safe space in California.


If you had noticed, I had ended that post with: "even if that was not what you had intended." Therefore I did not call you a white supremacist, but rather said you should be wary of words they make use of. And so, I did indeed point out that the user of the word "anti-white" could be rightly or wrongly associated with the white nationalist movement in the post in question that you're so obsessed with.


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08 Oct 2016, 12:53 am

Dox47 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Just a note, but most of our recently banned racists have been anti-Jewish.


I hadn't notice any anti-Semites at all, (((XFG))). :lol:


Just a week ago, I’d have mistaken that for a hug.


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08 Oct 2016, 8:22 am

AspE wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
Well now you know that this is not my intent, so I'd appreciate it very much if you stopped insinuating that I believe crazy things which I never said, like that all blacks have genetic criminality.

The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.

I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.

Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.

I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?


You see the surface symptoms, but you fail to connect it to our outrageously horrible history of racism and mistreatment which continues (albeit to a somewhat lesser degree of obviousness) to this day. How about you take responsibility for the problems of your country?

"Surface symptoms"? No, I just gave you the core of the problem. What, do you think these families are falling apart because white police come in and separate them?

No, they are choosing to do it. They are choosing to have a bunch of kids they can't provide for, they are choosing to commit crimes. Do you think black people don't make their own decisions?

That young boy I was talking about, they took him to see his dad in prison. He hadn't seen him for eight years. When his dad saw him, he immediately started crying, and then they talked for a bit. When he asked his father why he got put in prison, his father laughed, and said, "Murder and attempted murder."

Then he gave his son some advice, something along the lines of, "You gotta do good out there. Don't end up in here."

Huh, that's strange. He didn't seem to blame white people. Maybe it's because he realized that it was his own decision to kill another human being that got him locked up, and not his skin color.

Maybe you should realize that to. You seem to think of black people as mindless, helpless animals. You act as though any time a black person does something wrong, it's always the fault of white racists.

So you don't think black people have a free will of their own then? Because free will entails being able to independently make good or bad moral decisions, and to be therefore responsible for them. So by holding white people responsible for everything black people are doing, you are implying that black people cannot act independently of white people.

I know you think you're doing good here by attacking me and calling me a racist, but you are not. You are the one being racist, and you are part of the problem, not the solution.

What are your proposed solutions, anyway? Seeing as I'm white, you're certainly not gonna give my ideas a chance. I'm guessing you just want reparations for all black people in America, right?


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08 Oct 2016, 8:50 am

Just my observation, white people are already the least racist people in the world. You think the japanese and chinese are not racist?

Everyone else is racist and somehow it's acceptable.

Somehow it's not acceptable for white to be racist.

I think there are a**holes and good guys on any race. So racism don't pay in free market. Racism is something that will go away by itself under market mechanism. I bet any chinese american want is for government to just get rid affirmative action. Really.



kraftiekortie
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08 Oct 2016, 9:21 am

I really wish some black person, or somebody of a different race than "white," can come to this thread, and give his/her perspective. That would be really interesting.



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08 Oct 2016, 10:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I really wish some black person, or somebody of a different race than "white," can come to this thread, and give his/her perspective. That would be really interesting.

Well, *I* did... On the 1st, 2nd, and 6th page...

... But the OP appears to be almost incapable of responding to replies with anything but insults... So why bother?