Anti American sentiment

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The reason that fits in this forum is simple;

My philosophy of my view of the ideal woman




#759

Now I'm more comfortable here. Because just like other sites guys will turn a debate topic towards boobs . I live in Georgia, and I really don't see that many overweight people here. A lot of the women here are short like me, but differ greatly in the hair and boobs department.

No, i asked because he posted a dog f*****g something pic. Too me, that seems insulting to insinuate in any way that i have been f****d. I have never insulted someone like that on this site. And im not crying, GET OVER YOURSELF, you are not only always right, but sadly mistaken, at least in the arguments you have made against me.

Sadly it seems that either this arguement is pointless since neither side shows any sign of giving in, or that now you seem to be nitpicking at my statements as if i have made any errors of note. To me, that only shows that im winning because you resort to such trivial rebuttals.

Oh and eamon, if you me when i asked what side of the pic you meant? how is a serious question an insult? and even if it was intended as such, you yourself laughed at it, so it must not have been a true insult, even if that it what it was intended as, which it wasn't.

I admire the fact that he has a real issue with america, other than a blanket anti-american statement.
aND I BELIEVE IT TO BE A CORRECT ASSESMENT.
aMERICA IS PRO-BUSINESS-complete and without alternative.

It makes sense that we do not control pollution more because its bad for business.

I am completely and without alternative, anti big business.

I believe they are smothering everything of value and hoarding it all for their own greed, and of course, their stock-holders.

The most valuable of all, i believe, is the environment.
Couldn't we do a better job.

Do you think that all these great natural disasters; tidal waves' cat 5 hurricanes, etc... is a result of our environment lashing back at us.
Cause and effect?

Are you happy with our waste, and our abuse of nature?

Granted we're no where near as bad as we were 25 or 50 years ago, all of that would be for moot if it wasn't for "evil progressive" forces here in america.

And conservatives have had their hand in things also. The clean air and clean water act, two corner stone pieces of legislation regarding keeping the environment clean, were signed into law by all of all people, the evil crook, Richard Milhouse Nixon.

What do you mean? What would be moot if it wasnt for "evil progressive" forces in america? No industrialised nation is as bad as they used to be in more industrialised times but i think it hardly down to any great moral effort from the west or elsewhere, It does'nt make sense economically or socially to go backwards to using less efficient methods of fuel and resources.

Even President Bush is spending 1 Billion hydrogen engine cars that could change the World today and even tomorrow even too.

Epimonda, Posting a "pwned" pic is commonplace on the internet when someone is sure they have won a debate outright.

I in no way insinuated you have sexual relations with a dog or anything of the sort. I was just joking over the fact that i won this debate easily (which i did by even showing that your own source backs up my argument). You however insinuated i am a toddler but your right i did have a giggle over that. I took your post in good spirit and thought you would do the same over my post. Obviously now i can see that isnt the case, with hindsight.

Show me a perfect country, then b!#@h about this one. There isnt a perfect country. All countried pollute, to what degree varies however. All nations have consparicies, but the freedom to talk about it may not be in place. and so on.....

Stating that the United States DESERVED the terrorist attacks because of our arrogance, freedoms, or what ever is like saying the Jews deserved the Holocaust. No one DESERVES to be attacked or slaughtered in mass. (or individually in simmilar cirmstances for that matter). It is disrespectful at the very least to say such. Its a pitty that RobertN got a temp ban over it, but I think more than just that lead to his demise. and I do lookforward to debaiting with him again when he is back....

I am an AMERICAN. Im not Proud of everything my country has done, is doing or will do. BUT ITS MY COUNTRY! I dont hide BEHIND the flag, I STAND OUT IN FRONT WAVING IT! I am greatful that I have the freedom to decide things here, like what to say, how to dress, what to take in school, etc. The founding fathers created this great nation on the premise that everyone should be free. Granted, it has taken more than 200 years to perfect that ideal, and its still not perfect yet.

Those two above quotes, are some of the reasons that this nation is seen as a threat to others. We allow things here that other places dont. Unalienable rights, specifically Liberty (aka freedom) is rejected in many of the countries that are VERY anti American. Freedoms are a threat to the things that make dictatorships function. The fact that the founding fathers felt that "all men were created equal" shows that there is no place here for a caste system here or limited rights for some citizens over another. The foundations of this nation are based on the ideas that we have a right to freedom, and that that freedom must be protected for future generations.
perhaps that does make us arrogant. In this day and age where you can be to anyplace on the planet in just a few hours, the need to protect our nations freedoms extends, in some cases, beyond our own soil. After 9-11, and the physical attack on our nation, as well as the metaphorical attack on our liberty, we had to act. not just out of revenge or rage, but out of nessisity; the nessisity to defend and protect these freedoms, this right to liberity, for our children, their children and so on. If it means going into a nation that actively supports the terrorists that are out to distroy our nation (and other free nations as well), then so be it.
I am not debating the evilafication of the rest of the world with out ideals, or commerce, or right wing/ left wing politics. Im going back to the foundations of the nation that so many people hold in contempt. And it is that foundation I am proud of, even if some of the endresult havetn been perfect.

Well if we are talking about the foundation of the US then we should be aware that they werent so great then either in their treatment of the native people and the mexicans who where forced to move or die.

No country is perfect, they all have problems but most citizens of these countries dont go on the internet and act like they invented freedom and are superior to all because they stay there, particularly when they have the least humanist government of all western nations imo.

9/11 was tragic but the 3000 lives lost doesnt give you the right to invade and kill over 100,000 people in a land that had nothing to do with the tradegy. Dont tell me it was for the Iraq people because The "coalition" were instrumental in giving Saddam Hussein WMD and other weapons and then trying to cover up the gassing of kurds and other evil acts by Saddam until it suits them now. We were told that Saddam was a great ally at the time and a friend to the west, a moderate in the face of rising islamic fundamentalism in the region. Now we are told he had to be tackled to defeat rising islamic fundamentalism. The hypocrisy stinks and nearly all governments have a history but sane people arent proud of it.

I can admit the evil acts my country does without posting flags and getting all patriotic. To be honest people here that constantly go on about how great this land is usually tend to have nothing in the head or have self-esteem issues and i worry that this might be the case with citizens of other countries that do the same thing.

No-one is arguing that what RobertN said was right but i believe there was some heavy stirring going on. I hardly think him getting suspended was his demise. Im sure he will live. I wonder why you would want to debate with him straight away about the subject that led to his arguments and ban? Why dont you just exept there is a difference of opinion and move on? Do you have some special information about the US that might change his mind about his beliefs or are you wanting to get a rise out of him again?

Maybe it is, but not an obscene pic, and not even when you DID NOT win the argument. As usual, you apparently, either don't fully read my posts or don't understand the language.

Iraq was not what would be called a close and devoted ally during that time, it was more like the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of alliance. Both Iran and Iraq do not exactly have great human rights records, but Iraq was seen as the lesser of two evils then because they opposed communist Soviet backed Iran. Ever heard of the so-called Domino Effect that the West feared for years of the Cold War??

Honestly eamonn, i wonder if you ever read any sources let alone know any actual history. Yes, the US may have pushed west at the expense of Mexico and Indians, but so did many other nations. In fact, i really don't know any race or nation that has not at one time or another that did not have some kind of racist or culturual hatred and treatment of another race or culture. The Spanish, during the Colonial times were probably the worst of all, something like 8 million indians died on one of the small Carribean islands alone. Sounds like another holocaust to me. In the Inca lands, the Spaniards treated indians like slaves, even maming them if they tried to run or did not bring them enough gold. How many times did the British, first ally then betray native peoples?? Well, maybe that is why the U.S. did it, they learned their ways from the British, from whom most of the earliest Americans came from. The Brits never seemed to respect any native culture, they believed in Rudyard Kipling's "The White Man's Burden".

Before you chastize me about native americans or indians, i have some native blood myself, and yes i weep for tales like The Trail of Tears, but thats in the past. And today, it looks like the U.S. will be eventually reclaimed by native peoples, looking at how large native, latino, and hispanic numbers are growing in proportion in the US.

It seems eamonn you only win arguments in your own head, not in reality. So what if you found an editorial that contridicts what i heard about pollution? I only saw one statement, no data or back up info, so i must therefore conclude that it is merely an oppinion or belief. If this is the kind of evidence you use to support your side, be aware they are very weak and circumstantial tidbits and would never stand up in any courtroom, at least in the strict standards of the US.

first off, we had every right, in our nations best intrest, after being ATTACKED first, BLINDSIDED if you will to act. So the arguement that we didnt, well, Im not gonna cave to that. As far as Saddam goes, his attacks on the kurds was unjustified. I dont give a rip where the weapons came from. IRAQ was a known supporter for in terrorist ops anyhow. The intel they had at the time was what they went with, and that cant be changed now. We must finish the job of asssisting in the establishment of a democracy. Countries like that, when under the rule of a ruler like saddam, are a threat to the freedoms of the rest of the world. The existance of a country who's leader encourages his people to kill the innocent occupants of another country with out provocation is threatining. The guys I have talked to that I went to school with who JUST GOT BACK from over in Iraq, tell me that 99% of the people are greatful for the ability to be free, to vote and to live with out the fear that the gov't will murder them and an entire village at a whim. The media shows the bad stuff. I dont see Dan Rather talking to too many people that are greatful. The media knows that the violence and unrest sells more papers.... so.... the focus is skewed. Almost all of the soldiers that have come back have told me the same thing; They would do it again. Robbie, a fellow firefighter and former schoolmate, lost part of an arm. He told me he would go back and do it all over again if he had to in the defence of this nation. Patriotism goes way beyond waving flags, its attutude. If I could take up arms and defend my great nation, you had better beleive I would. Everyone wants to call the US evil. Do you have any idea how evil Saddam was? His sons too. This is the god's honest truth, they had an industrial plastic shreader they would feed live people into if they were not in aggreance with whatever. If they liked you you went head first. My country isnt perfect. I know that, but that kind of thing isnt going on in some secret room in the White House for George W's entertainment as it was for Saddam's.
As far as RobertN goes, I enjoyed the intelectual value of the debates. Even If I dissagreed and got irritated with him, the chance to argue a point was challenging. I enjoy that to some degree.


AS far as that "special information", yes, as a matter of fact I DO know something that isnt public knowledge, and it might not be for a long long time. (family connections and all that jazz) If I could shair it with you in whole, it might change a few minds, but others, nah, they would just discount it as phycobabble.

Well any suggestions that Saddam was a big player in groups that wanted the downfall of his government is ridiculous to me. These kind of allegations were sticked on for the ignorant masses. Saddam was an evil person indeed and so was his regime but since the end of the first gulf war and the brutal end of the Kurd and Shiite uprising (which Bush sr encouraged, promising US military support that failed to materialise) he hasnt killed nearly as many people as the coalition managed to do.

The insurgance in Iraq would fail to exist in any effective way if there was 99% backing of the coalition so i dont believe that figure atall, most want the coalition out i think and even the Iraq police and military have many "insurgency" backers. Lets face it a lot of people, particularly soldiers would go and eat babies if they got official sanction from their government but that doesnt make the war right.

I think this war has turned Iraq into a more dangerous and hostile place, ripe for Islamic groups than it was under Saddam Hussein. The intelligence agencies were under incredible pressure from their government to find anything and so came out with gibberish. There was no real intelligence to signify Saddam had a substansial arsenal of wmd atall. The whole issue is a farce and obviously our governments havent heard of the fable of the boy who cried wolf or they are banking on people being silly enough to go back and fight no matter what they say. I dont know one person that's joined the army and came out the better for it so if im going to fight.

I need to be sure my country's leader is telling me the truth, isnt responsible for the war and that the war is just. I dont think there has been any such war in my lifetime. Even the first gulf war was totally political and oil related and little to do with fighting an evil power. What did the veterans get when they came back with gulf war syndrome, oh thats right no recognition. Loyalty is only a good thing if it is reciprocated.

/me just waits to vote Democrats into office in '06 and especially '08 elections...

I never denied the brits history of opression far less praise it. Epimondanas, stop arguing with a straw man, i think we both know who won the argument here. LOL @ the strict standards of the US courtrooms. I should happily let my nephews sleep in Michael Jackson's house and my sister marry OJ simpson in the full knowledge of their innocence of any molestation or murder charges? BTW There have been miscarriages of justice here so i will point out that before you bring up any. Im not smug about my country.

you can never be 100% sure. Its faith in government, even if we dont it that way. I'd rather see the facts in front of me as well, but not all the facts Im talking about came out of the media. they came from first hand accounts in person with the people that lived it, fought it, and saw it.