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"It's my birthday, so vote against 'Gay Marriage'"

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Kraichgauer
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28 Feb 2012, 5:15 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
codarac wrote:

It's weird how 99% of the people who have ever lived never came to the realisation that homosexuals have this supposed "right" to get married.
Fact is: there are no rights apart from what a society/community decides to bestow upon its members.
Homosexuality is a defect, and a healthy society should discriminate against it on those grounds.


I don't think it's a defect, but let's follow your logic here for a moment. You think homosexuality is a defect because it's not conducive to individual reproduction, right? This argument raises several issues:

1. Many homosexuals in the past have reproduced, anyway, and they continue to do so.
2. Even if your argument is that homosexuality is not destructive of the reproduction per se, but of the family unit, you frankly have no evidence of this.
3. Even if homosexuality has a negative effect on an individual's ability to reproduce, you have no evidence that it lowers the reproductive capacity of the population at large. Most states of India have a fertility rate well above replacement level. In India, 50% of men have their first sexual experience with another man.
4. Some cultures specifically have a role for homosexual or transsexual men and I don't see how these societies are unhealthy or decadent, when they've been that way for thousands of years.
5. Even the northern European culture, which you probably think is historically a 'healthy' one, wasn't homophobic until the adoption of Christianity.


Please don't think I'm taking codarac's side, but in regard to your 5th point, I'm afraid that in Pre-Christian northern Europe, homophobia was alive and well. Tacitus in his book The Germania, written in the late first century A.D., recounted how homosexuals were punished by being buried alive in bogs. Their remains have been discovered in modern times, preserved in the peat. To be sure, as not every Germanic culture was the same, another tribe called the Heruli may have practiced ritual homosexuality in their manhood rituals, but it's uncertain if any other tribes followed their lead.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



CrazyCatLord
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28 Feb 2012, 5:22 pm

That point could be made about the pre-Christian Roman culture though. Not only homosexuality was legal in ancient Rome, gay marriage was legal as well. Two Roman emperors married a man.



puddingmouse
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28 Feb 2012, 5:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Please don't think I'm taking codarac's side, but in regard to your 5th point, I'm afraid that in Pre-Christian northern Europe, homophobia was alive and well. Tacitus in his book The Germania, written in the late first century A.D., recounted how homosexuals were punished by being buried alive in bogs. Their remains have been discovered in modern times, preserved in the peat. To be sure, as not every Germanic culture was the same, another tribe called the Heruli may have practiced ritual homosexuality in their manhood rituals, but it's uncertain if any other tribes followed their lead.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Meanwhile, the Celts were easy-access, especially according to Roman accounts. :lol:

There is other evidence that suggests they had a concept of gender and sexuality that was not the norm post-Christianisation, but nothing is as clear as what the Romans wrote on that matter. :wink:


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28 Feb 2012, 6:13 pm

codarac wrote:
But A.S. is a defect, and I have come to accept that rather than expect the world to change to suit me.
(...)
Homosexuality is a defect, and a healthy society should discriminate against it on those grounds.
Equally applicable to Autism, apparently. Lovely.
Should we be happy your rather oppressive viewpoint says that anything regarded as a "defect" should be discriminated against?


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Kraichgauer
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28 Feb 2012, 6:24 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Please don't think I'm taking codarac's side, but in regard to your 5th point, I'm afraid that in Pre-Christian northern Europe, homophobia was alive and well. Tacitus in his book The Germania, written in the late first century A.D., recounted how homosexuals were punished by being buried alive in bogs. Their remains have been discovered in modern times, preserved in the peat. To be sure, as not every Germanic culture was the same, another tribe called the Heruli may have practiced ritual homosexuality in their manhood rituals, but it's uncertain if any other tribes followed their lead.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Meanwhile, the Celts were easy-access, especially according to Roman accounts. :lol:

There is other evidence that suggests they had a concept of gender and sexuality that was not the norm post-Christianisation, but nothing is as clear as what the Romans wrote on that matter. :wink:


Oh, yes; Caesar wrote of how Gallic warriors preferred to keep sexual company with one another than with their wives, who were very often physically beautiful. While (I believe) a Greek historian had described how young Gallic warriors would offer themselves to guests, and would be offended if the offer was rebuffed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



heavenlyabyss
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28 Feb 2012, 11:30 pm

Lol, old thread but I'll respond anyway.

Yes, that is highly offensive, but I will cut her some slack. Clearly she learned these values from other people (most likely her parents). She can't be blamed for being brainwashed.



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29 Feb 2012, 4:10 am

codarac wrote:
But A.S. is a defect, and I have come to accept that rather than expect the world to change to suit me.
(...)
Homosexuality is a defect, and a healthy society should discriminate against it on those grounds.


I'm gay and have AS, I must be so broken and defective that I'm falling apart. Fortunately my life isn't all about the fact that I'm gay. I don't lead a gay life, I lead a life and just happen to like other men. I've seen plenty of gay bashing in my time and it doesn't bother me at all now, people are entitled to their views and so long as I'm not being physically hurt or verbally bullied then I welcome their opinions, but as just that, opinions.
This remind me of that episode of the West Wing where a gay politician votes against gay marriage. I think it's Josh that doesn't understand why the politician feels this way, he remarks that his life isn't all about being gay, that's not all there is to him, he then goes on to say that [voting against gay marriage] disgusts him but he has a responsibility to the people.

EDIT: I misquoted Cornflake and codarac's comments together when I just meant to quote codarac's.



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29 Feb 2012, 8:10 pm

Anyone else think AngelRho, who dodged the question of what the punishment is for homosexuality because he made accusations of being baited into being banned, is looking worse and worse because codarac is posting here?

I might as well just ask codarac if he thinks homosexuality should be punished and what is that punishment. He might actually answer that question, since he rather well knows if he doesn't attack anyone it is apparently OK to say.



WilliamWDelaney
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29 Feb 2012, 8:26 pm

Excuse me...my A.S. symptoms, my diagnosed Tourettes, and my homosexuality are all challenges to me living the kind of life that I would have chosen to live.

Another challenge to me living the kind of life that I want to is bigotry.

I am not sure I would feel comfortable changing my sexuality even if I could...it would disrupt my sense of identity. It's silly, I know, but I think it's a perfectly human and normal way for me to feel.

Hope is growing in me, every day, that bigotry...I might be able to do something about.



Kraichgauer
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29 Feb 2012, 8:30 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Excuse me...my A.S. symptoms, my diagnosed Tourettes, and my homosexuality are all challenges to me living the kind of life that I would have chosen to live.

Another challenge to me living the kind of life that I want to is bigotry.

I am not sure I would feel comfortable changing my sexuality even if I could...it would disrupt my sense of identity. It's silly, I know, but I think it's a perfectly human and normal way for me to feel.

Hope is growing in me, every day, that bigotry...I might be able to do something about.


Don't ever let anyone tell you you're defective. It's the bigots who have the problem.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Feb 2012, 8:45 pm

A quote someone posted on Facebook the other day that applies here:
"Saying that someone's marriage is against your religion is like telling someone that they can't eat a doughnut because you're on a diet."



Kraichgauer
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29 Feb 2012, 8:51 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
A quote someone posted on Facebook the other day that applies here:
"Saying that someone's marriage is against your religion is like telling someone that they can't eat a doughnut because you're on a diet."


I like that. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



91
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29 Feb 2012, 9:13 pm

Interesting that the girl received death threats.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/14-yea ... g-marriage


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29 Feb 2012, 9:35 pm

91 wrote:
Interesting that the girl received death threats.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/14-yea ... g-marriage


Sadly, people on both sides engage in massive Missing the Point at times.



visagrunt
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01 Mar 2012, 12:15 pm

91 wrote:
Interesting that the girl received death threats.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/14-yea ... g-marriage


That has more to do with the "winner-take-all" approach to politics that is being practiced these days--nowhere moreso than the United States, than it has to do with the issue at hand.


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01 Mar 2012, 12:40 pm

91 wrote:
Interesting that the girl received death threats.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/14-yea ... g-marriage


On youTube :roll: Have you ever read the comments there? YouTube users receive "death threats" from immature trolls for posting videos of fluffy kittens. "How dare u put a kittn in a cardbaord box! thats animal creulty U MONSTER!!1! im gona find u and set u on fire!!" :lol:

That's no exaggeration, sadly. Some antisocial kids seem to have dedicated their life to posting hateful remarks on popular internet sites. (Or to spouting homophobe rants that are thinly veiled as "defending marriage", for that matter).