Feminist preoccupation with power

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Ragtime
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09 Apr 2012, 5:32 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Wow this is nuts. Seriously? Neo-Nazis patrolling around armed to protect whites is somehow equivalent to having feminist ideals? Looks like someone took the term feminazi too literally.

And with a twist of my words, a strawman is born!

You have made the association between Neo Nazis and Feminists dozens of times. That is no straw man.

Dozens?

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Ragtime
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09 Apr 2012, 5:34 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Wow this is nuts. Seriously? Neo-Nazis patrolling around armed to protect whites is somehow equivalent to having feminist ideals? Looks like someone took the term feminazi too literally.

And with a twist of my words, a strawman is born!

What twist?

Read my other posts, because they make it clear. Even my initial post on the subject makes it clear. Repetition is desired by no one, including me, so go back, read, and learn.

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Kurgan
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09 Apr 2012, 5:34 pm

Last edited by Kurgan on 09 Apr 2012, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZX_SpectrumDisorder
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09 Apr 2012, 5:35 pm

Is the term feminist still actually applicable in 2012?

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Last edited by ZX_SpectrumDisorder on 10 Apr 2012, 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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09 Apr 2012, 5:38 pm

ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote:

Is the term feminist still actually applicable in 2012?

Yes

Ancalagon
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09 Apr 2012, 6:03 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

What twist?

Read my other posts, because they make it clear.

I reread them. No they don't.

Quote:

Even my initial post on the subject makes it clear.

If your initial post is clear, then AceOfSpades' criticism was on target.

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TM
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09 Apr 2012, 6:23 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

TM wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

you brought up an interesting point... so you think that women should act like stereotypical men in order to get paid as much as them... and that would be a form of gender discrimination.

I think that women should be required to be a man's equal in work performance in order to get an equal paycheck. As I said about the doctors earlier, where the men made quite a bit more than the women because they worked 500 hours more per year, in that case the pay gap is perfectly reasonable. Everyone has to make choices as "having it all" is not possible. It's not gender discrimination its performance discrimination. I don't think you mean that a woman should get paid an equal check for lesser work do you? (Not a straw-man, just making sure). This doesn't include "stereotypical male behavior" it means approaching the job in the same way as the people you work with do.

If I work 40 hours a week, take every weekend off, refuse to deal with clients outside of those 40 hours and so on, it wouldn't be fair if I was paid the same check as a colleague that works 60 hours a week, 3 weekends a month and is available for clients 19 hours a day provided the extra time that person put in resulted in more work getting done.

If you were specifically referring to the testosterone and estrogen comments, I don't think I've ever met a woman who say they aren't more emotional when they have more estrogen. More emotion, can manifest in negative ways, such as snapping on clients, crying in meetings and so on. On the same note, punching a client in the face due to more testosterone would have the same negative impact.

women aren't actually less skilled at doing jobs because of their hormones, which is what you are implying. in male-dominated fields they may not be accustomed to the way some females come across, but the work performance doesn't actually suffer. hormones do not cause women to perform poorly.

and you are going off on a tangent. when people have sex change operations, they don't suddenly stop performing their jobs properly (or get better at it because they have different hormones). AND they don't cut back their hours just because they are now female. if you truly believe that women's hormones make them worse at jobs, you're going to need to back that up with some kind of evidence.

by the way... you are talking to a woman right now who doesn't get overly emotional from estrogen. *nobody* can tell where i am in my monthly cycle, not even the man i was with for 20 years. you're drawing some kind of strange conclusion there based on popular stereotypes.

and that's what this is really about. some employers may make assumptions about female employees so that even if their work is the same as a man's, they are considered less worthy.

I wasn't actually implying that women are less capable of work due to their hormones, even though http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 212846.htm perhaps indicates something. A bit of that could be staying home with children. The reason I mentioned the hormones are that increased hormone levels do affect people, http://www.iiav.nl/ezines/web/ijt/97-03 ... o03_02.htm

Even though this http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2006/oct/wk1/art03.htm

And this is just a safety response if you wanted to add that tired old tripe about housework. http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news ... enewal.pdf

Tequila
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09 Apr 2012, 6:36 pm

ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote:

Is the term feminist still actually applicable in 2012?

To be honest, in this day and age it's just stupid and divisive.

Anyone who's worth their salt will want to change the name if only because there are a lot of men who might actually agree with a fair few beliefs from the non-bitter sections of feminism, but they're browbeaten by the more aggressive feminists into submitting or being abused.

I think that men and women could form a movement that would unite them rather than be divisive - that they could both respect and care for each other's rights, without women holding rights that discriminate or are greater than the rights that men hold or vice versa (or the situation with domestic violence and rape/sexual assault at the moment).

Neither imbalance is good - and listening to guys making disgusting statements about women is as bad as hearing women making vicious, humiliating, degrading and abusive comments about men.

Joker
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09 Apr 2012, 6:39 pm

Feminism doesn't devide the sexes I am a feminist and I am a man I'm also not the only man who is.

Ragtime
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09 Apr 2012, 6:40 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Actually, you could substitute anything for the word "Nazis" in that graph, and it would still be true.

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Ragtime
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09 Apr 2012, 6:41 pm

ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote:

Is the term feminist still actually applicable in 2012?

Not with any set definition, that's for sure. :lol:

It basically has no meaning.

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Joker
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09 Apr 2012, 6:44 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Actually, you could substitute anything for the word "Nazis" in that graph, and it would still be true.

Still makes no sense :wink:

Kurgan
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09 Apr 2012, 6:46 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Actually, you could substitute anything for the word "Nazis" in that graph, and it would still be true.

Nazi analogies are almost always the first unfair comparisons to appear. Hitler is typically the only one which is synonymous with evil on both sides.

Ragtime
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09 Apr 2012, 6:46 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

What twist?

Read my other posts, because they make it clear.

I reread them. No they don't.

Quote:

Even my initial post on the subject makes it clear.

If your initial post is clear, then AceOfSpades' criticism was on target.

Okay, I actually don't believe you were unable to decipher my meaning. I really doubt you are being sincere at this point.

See, it's simple: I asked hyper what she thought of the concept of "whites protecting whites because they are white", to which she rightly said it's a bad thing. Yet, women protecting women because they are women is a good thing to her. That is simply inconsistent.

C'mon, how simply put is this? You guys are smart, and I refuse to believe otherwise.

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Joker
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09 Apr 2012, 6:51 pm

I am of German acestry I a feminst I do not like being compared to a Neo-Nazi

Ragtime
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09 Apr 2012, 6:51 pm

Joker wrote:

Feminism doesn't devide the sexes I am a feminist and I am a man I'm also not the only man who is.

Well, let's see, it alienates me, every guy I know, and 99% of the guys I have heard discuss the subject.

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