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Should Prostitution be Legal?
I'm male, and I say "Yay!" 66%  66%  [ 103 ]
I'm male, and I say "Neigh!" 14%  14%  [ 22 ]
I'm female, and I say "Yes" 15%  15%  [ 23 ]
I'm female, and I say "No" 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 155

puddingmouse
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28 Oct 2012, 7:16 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I'm also sorry if I associated you with the abusive mentality of a lot of punters of the sex industry.


Oh, it's okay. I'm not really an abusive sort of bloke. If no-one wants my money, then fine.


You need to think about where the money is going. I don't know, it must be pretty obvious where the 'bad' brothels are.



ArrantPariah
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28 Oct 2012, 8:02 pm

In some parts of Europe, handicapped folks are increasingly making use of the services of harlots

http://www.myhandicap.com/disability-prostitut.html



29 Oct 2012, 6:21 am

enrico_dandolo wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:
I would imagine that an orgasm within a relationship is different from an orgasm without.


All that you are doing is squirting semen. Same difference.

The emotional value is different.

Intimate relationships are not only a prerequisite to sex.



Uhhhh NO. They are not. Plenty of women and men do indeed have sex outside of intimate relationships and enjoy doing so.



Quote:


They have value in themselves. From that point of view, sex is just an aspect of the relationship, not its sole object.




Correct. But the fact that sex is part of intimate relationships does not imply that they can't be mutually exclusive.



ArrantPariah
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29 Oct 2012, 7:26 am

Here you can see the mug shots of a bunch of poor souls caught in a prostitution sting in Joliet, Illinois

http://www.wlsam.com/sectional.asp?id=40135&cid=1

This would be certainly the low end of the market. And, no-one appears to be a kidnapped teenager.



puddingmouse
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29 Oct 2012, 9:17 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Here you can see the mug shots of a bunch of poor souls caught in a prostitution sting in Joliet, Illinois

http://www.wlsam.com/sectional.asp?id=40135&cid=1

This would be certainly the low end of the market. And, no-one appears to be a kidnapped teenager.


Um, you don't know. No-one looks underaged, but some of them could be trafficked. Also, you don't know the history of their lives. Some of them look like drug addicts. Besides, one case doesn't represent all cases - and the problem with punters is that they often don't give a s**t, and neither do governments.



ArrantPariah
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29 Oct 2012, 10:01 am

Of course I don't know anyone in the pictures. But, I'm certain that if the police had uncovered an actual trafficking ring, then it would have been all over the newspapers. The one case that the newspaper did cover was a woman with four kids and no money to pay the rent. As far as I can tell, these are simply random people seeking to exchange money (which wouldn't be illegal by itself) for services (which would also otherwise be legal).



ArrantPariah
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02 Nov 2012, 8:59 pm

By the by, an interesting report can be downloaded here

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/r ... and-rights

Quote:
Our Lives Matter describes how these groups have challenged unfair incarceration, violence, extortion, eviction, and humiliation; fought for equal access to health care services; and called for sex work to be officially recognized as work.


And, ten reasons to decriminalize sex work

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/p ... e-sex-work

Quote:
Sex work is criminalized either through direct prohibitions on selling sexual services for money or through laws that prohibit solicitation of sex, living off of the earnings of sex work, brothel-keeping, or procuring sexual services. By reducing the freedom of sex workers to negotiate condom use with clients, organize for fair treatment, and publicly advocate for their rights, criminalization and aggressive policing have been shown to increase sex workers' vulnerability to violence, extortion, and health risks.

This document provides ten reasons why decriminalizing sex work is the best policy for promoting health and human rights for sex workers, their families, and communities. Removing criminal prosecution of sex work goes hand-in-hand with recognizing sex work as work and protecting the rights of sex workers through workplace health and safety standards. Decriminalizing sex work means sex workers are more likely to live without stigma, social exclusion, and fear of violence.



Vexcalibur
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03 Nov 2012, 3:51 pm

Decriminalizing sex working is the lesser evil as it reduces some of the dangers.

However, it is still wrong to use that industry, the odds you will be financing trafficking directly or indirectly are too large.

I see prostitution as abortion. It would be ideal f it didn't happened. And perhaps one day it will not happen. But making it illegal is not the way to accomplish that.


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ArrantPariah
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04 Nov 2012, 8:54 am

puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Studies have shown that even men have stronger orgasms when they stimulate themselves (they know their own responses and exactly how they like it).


Wait a minute. What studies are these? Who was doing the studies? And, why are you busy reading all of these studies?


Sorry, I read it a long time ago. I know that sounds like a cop out. I don't read lots of studies, I just remember the ones I have read. :oops:


This actually sounds like something that you might have read in a Grocery Store Women's Magazine. They usually have rather sleazy story lines. Like "50 Ways to Make the Guy Standing in Line Behind You Jizz in his Pants."



puddingmouse
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04 Nov 2012, 3:54 pm

^lol, no.



ArrantPariah
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07 Nov 2012, 4:43 pm

From what I understand, Odessa has eclipsed Amsterdam as Europe's Prostitution Capital.



ArrantPariah
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13 Nov 2012, 1:30 pm

Well, here is a case

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/09/arizon ... ?hpt=hp_t2

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A church called the Phoenix Goddess Temple has been accused of being a house of prostitution, and a six-month undercover investigation has resulted in the arrests of 20 women and men who worked there, Phoenix police said Friday.

Authorities are still searching for 17 more people -- all of whom have been indicted -- in connection with the prostitution enterprise, said Sgt. Steve Martos, a Phoenix police spokesman. The 20 people arrested so far have been charged with prostitution or other offenses, police said.

During a Wednesday search of the Phoenix temple and two church-related sites in nearby Sedona, police seized evidence showing that "male and female 'practitioners' working at the Temple were performing sexual acts in exchange for monetary 'donations,' all on the pretense of providing 'neo tantric' healing therapies," Phoenix police said.

The alleged brothel generated tens of thousands of dollars a month, Martos told CNN.

A history of neighbor complaints, a recent Phoenix newspaper article, and the temple's website were among the factors prompting authorities to conduct the undercover investigation, Martos said.

"What's unusual is that they were trying to hide behind religion or church, and under the guise of religious freedom, they were committing acts of prostitution," Martos said.

"We certainly respect First Amendment rights. However, religious freedom does not allow for criminal acts," Martos said.

Regarding the Goddess Temple's website, he said: "What they would talk about would seem to be religion. At the same time, they were implying or intimating that they were giving sex therapy."

The website says at one point: "Sex is a holy, sacred and divine healing force at the core (of) our beings. Once we embrace this force instead of deny it, we become successful, happy and powerful manifestors."

The website also features unclothed women, listed as residing in several states, under a "Goddesses" section.

The investigation focused on the alleged crimes, said acting Phoenix Police Chief Joe Yahner.

Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery added in a statement: "Freedom of religion does not allow individuals to trade sex for money, no matter how the transaction is portrayed."

The alleged madam, Tracy Elise, who is in her 50s, was arrested and charged with prostitution, illegal control of an enterprise, pandering, and operating a house of prostitution, police said.

Elise was allegedly involved in a similar suspected brothel in Seattle, Washington, which authorities shut down in 2009, Phoenix police said.

Elise or her attorney could not be immediately reached for comment.

Others named in the indictment face charges including conspiracy, working in a house of prostitution, and massaging without a license. A total of 33 people have been indicted, but during Wednesday's search of the Phoenix temple, police arrested four more people not named in the indictment, Martos said.

Four of the 20 people arrested are men, and two of the four are alleged prostitutes, Martos said. The other two men are a website operator and a school director-teacher at the temple, he said.

The other people arrested are women, he added....


First Amendment wrote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Quote:
Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, the Supreme Court has applied the First Amendment to each state. This was done through the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.


Here is the Phoenix Goddess Temple's website

http://www.phoenixgoddesstemple.org/

Huffington Post video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/1 ... 56835.html



ArrantPariah
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18 Nov 2012, 2:54 pm

So far, no-one has invoked the Lawrence v. Texas case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

Quote:
Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003),[1] is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court. In the 6-3 ruling, the Court struck down the sodomy law in Texas and, by extension, invalidated sodomy laws in thirteen other states, making same-sex sexual activity legal in every U.S. state and territory. The Court overturned its previous ruling on the same issue in the 1986 case Bowers v. Hardwick, where it upheld a challenged Georgia statute and did not find a constitutional protection of sexual privacy.

Lawrence explicitly overruled Bowers, holding that it had viewed the liberty interest too narrowly. The Court held that intimate consensual sexual conduct was part of the liberty protected by substantive due process under the Fourteenth Amendment. Lawrence invalidated similar laws throughout the United States that criminalized sodomy between consenting adults acting in private, whatever the sex of the participants


Rick Santorum {remember him?) wrote:
We have laws in states, like the one at the Supreme Court right now, that has sodomy laws and they were there for a purpose.... And if the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything.... It all comes from, I would argue, this right to privacy that doesn't exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution, this right that was created...in Griswold


If we have the right to consensual sex within our own homes, then maybe we also have the right to paid consensual sex?

However

Quote:
In a petition for certiorari filed in the U.S. Supreme Court on July 16, 2002, Lambda Legal attorneys asked the Court to consider:

1. Whether the petitioners' criminal convictions under the Texas "Homosexual Conduct" law — which criminalizes sexual intimacy by same-sex couples, but not identical behavior by different-sex couples — violate the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee of equal protection of the laws?
2. Whether the petitioners' criminal convictions for adult consensual sexual intimacy in their home violate their vital interests in liberty and privacy protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?
3. Whether Bowers v. Hardwick should be overruled?


It would appear that Lawrence v. Texas might not be applicable to prostitution, because Lawrence v. Texas referred to different laws being applied to same-sex intimacy versus different-sex intimacy. As long as homosexual and heterosexual prostitutes are governed by identical laws, then we might not be able to build a case based upon Lawrence v. Texas.



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18 Nov 2012, 2:56 pm

No the spread of disease should not be legal.


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04 Dec 2012, 8:36 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3omQikQYmgY[/youtube]



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04 Dec 2012, 11:13 am

puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Here you can see the mug shots of a bunch of poor souls caught in a prostitution sting in Joliet, Illinois

http://www.wlsam.com/sectional.asp?id=40135&cid=1

This would be certainly the low end of the market. And, no-one appears to be a kidnapped teenager.


Um, you don't know. No-one looks underaged, but some of them could be trafficked. Also, you don't know the history of their lives. Some of them look like drug addicts. Besides, one case doesn't represent all cases - and the problem with punters is that they often don't give a sh**, and neither do governments.


Human sex trafficking - in Western countries at least - doesn't exist. Mosy people are prostitutes who travel abroad to foreign countries to make a better life for themselves, and possibly their kiddywinks and wider families either here or back home. Human trafficking is almost entirely a luevl jumped upon by sex-negativw feminists to help to muddy the waters, and by doing so, stigmatise ALL johns. Bing it out into the open, make it all competitive, cheap, clean and safe for BOTH parties, for heaven's sake.

I have met teenage girls who have fallen in with some very nasty gangster types, but this stuff certainly wouldn't be indilged in semi-openly.