On punching Nazis
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
While I don't like Webb's stance on gays in the military, I still like what I know of his other positions.
I agree with you on that. I like that fact he is a bit more conservatively minded and sees the other side. But that has its downsides.
But I am sick of the demonization we give to these people. Every single demagogue in history including Trump rode on people's anger at their inequality. Until we correct this the cycle will continue and continue. We can go on and on about how these people's beliefs are deplorable but until we look them in the face and help them nothing will change.
So let's reach out to these people they aren't all bad. I once read about a Stormfront person who gave support to their wife who was depressed and suicidal. This person likely had empathy. We have to see what is beneath.
While that is commendable, would that same Stormfront member do the same for a racial or sexual minority?
Jesus I think I am getting emotional in this.
His viewing someone else as evil simply for belonging to a minority group is indefensibly wrong.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
While I don't like Webb's stance on gays in the military, I still like what I know of his other positions.
I agree with you on that. I like that fact he is a bit more conservatively minded and sees the other side. But that has its downsides.
But I am sick of the demonization we give to these people. Every single demagogue in history including Trump rode on people's anger at their inequality. Until we correct this the cycle will continue and continue. We can go on and on about how these people's beliefs are deplorable but until we look them in the face and help them nothing will change.
So let's reach out to these people they aren't all bad. I once read about a Stormfront person who gave support to their wife who was depressed and suicidal. This person likely had empathy. We have to see what is beneath.
While that is commendable, would that same Stormfront member do the same for a racial or sexual minority?
Jesus I think I am getting emotional in this.
His viewing someone else as evil simply for belonging to a minority group is indefensibly wrong.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
While I don't like Webb's stance on gays in the military, I still like what I know of his other positions.
I agree with you on that. I like that fact he is a bit more conservatively minded and sees the other side. But that has its downsides.
But I am sick of the demonization we give to these people. Every single demagogue in history including Trump rode on people's anger at their inequality. Until we correct this the cycle will continue and continue. We can go on and on about how these people's beliefs are deplorable but until we look them in the face and help them nothing will change.
So let's reach out to these people they aren't all bad. I once read about a Stormfront person who gave support to their wife who was depressed and suicidal. This person likely had empathy. We have to see what is beneath.
While that is commendable, would that same Stormfront member do the same for a racial or sexual minority?
Jesus I think I am getting emotional in this.
His viewing someone else as evil simply for belonging to a minority group is indefensibly wrong.
I don't believe right comes into the equation for those people. Rather, it's all about feeding their hate and prejudice. Right and wrong doesn't come into the picture for them.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Problem of course is that big business does push for a certain immigration policy. So may I ask what kind of changes to America's immigration policy , or just domestic policy in general, so that the so called 1% can no longer use immigration to their advantage?
Why exactly are you asking me? I have no control over laws, nor will I ever since I have no talent for or desire to be in law/politics. That would be a question to ask someone who could actually create a bill and get backing. Also said bill would never go through because the United States is an aggressive capitalist society and profit will always prevail over human rights. That's the nature of capitalism.
To answer your question there is no bill that can be passed unless we reject capitalism.
_________________
Herein You Will Find Various And Numerous And Innumerable Hexes, Curses, Words In The Old Tongue To Cleave A’Twain Friend, Foe, Family Alike. If You So Choose. Money Hates Me, God Hates Me, My Wife Hates Me, My Own Hands Hate Me. But Thats All Beside The Point. The Point Is That My Time Here On Earth Runs Short. Im Not Dying But You All Are. Im A Glass Of Wine. Nothing Beats A Glass Of Wine. When The Kids Arent Home And Your A Mother Theres A Glass Of Wine There. A Glass Coffee Table And I’m A Glass Of Wine. Stressful Day When The Kids And you're Husband Then Glass Of Wine. Dark Chocolate Indulge. Petty Indulgences. When you're A Glass Of Wine And Let The Body’s Hit The Floor. When Your Glass Of Wine Is Running Short And You Say Heck What Of It. Why Dont I Have Another. Bartender I Am A Glass Of Wine. Bottoms Up And The Devil Laughs. The Bartender Remembers When It Happened. They All Remember When It Happened And If They Knew That You Dont Remember Then They Would Know That Something Is Awry Here Or So They Would Think. Something Would Be Amiss Or Smells Fishy. So Theyre All Relating There Stories Of Where They Were When That Event Happened And The Eyes Move Clockwise About The Room Where We All Share Our Glass Of Wine And Suddenly The Clock Ticks To You And They Ask The Fatal Question That Destroys Your Reputation, The Question You Could Never Answer, The Dead Giveaway: Where Were You When The Bodies Hit The Floor
If you want to punish the capitalists that enslave you then opposing their policy of mass migration is step one, you can never collectively bargain with an infinite labor supply that makes workers totally worthless individually and it further gets better for them yet as they can(and have since the colonists started arriving on the continent) divide the workers against each other by race. They play on your emotions and manipulate you into thinking they are the moral ones but follow the money, they're not doing it because of anything besides money & power.
The word "Nazi" gets thrown around too easily now. Just because someone is a white nationalist it doesn't mean they want to start putting people in concentration camps.
No, it means they want to deport all non-white people.
Are you aware that you sound like you're defending white nationalists?
You just defended blowing up innocent people on the other thread, so you probably ought to think before you type. So some people have the view that they want to deport all white people, yet your government and you have been supporting racial colonies in Palestine for 50 years. What's worse?
I'm defending everyone's right not to be attacked for their views. And duh, white people are allowed to be nationalists.
I defend bombing people who want to murder us - - not exactly innocent lambs.
And who seriously wants to deport white people? Two or three insanos? There are a lot more white nationalists who want to rid America of brown and black people.
I'm not going to get derailed with your Anti-Israeli notions.
And yes, people have the right to be something as deplorable as a white nationalist, but that doesn't mean the rest of us who know America's destiny lies with being a pluralistic society have to accept your Alti Right White Nationalist ideology.
There's zero evidence that they wanted to murder anyone. Amazing how your double standards work. You realise the 'suspects' were at a barbecue or funeral and the other innocent people around them were blown up? I guess Arabs are all terrorists in your eyes though. Unless Trump is banning them. Wait, you're pro Israel?
You support racial apartheid, ethnic cleansing and mass murder so don't lecture me about nationalism. How many people has that Spencer guy killed? You support and vote for mass murderers.
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.
Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.
What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?
What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.
Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.
Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.
Please don't make assumptions. I remember Chomsky talking about the subject. Though there are some Black Panthers who have called for white babies to be burned, so going by your rules that justifies randomly punching any of them.
To some it seems to be. Some of the people on here are supportive of ethnic cleansing, depending on who carries it out
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.
Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.
What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?
What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.
Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.
Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.
Says something about the Alt Right, that they defend the killing of an unarmed black man just because he might have called women names, or had supported radical (or not so radical) black groups. But getting fed up with a Nazi a$$hole, and throwing a punch, oh that's so terrible!
Not sure who coerces you to use these labels. I'm not alt right whatever that means.
You should win a gold medal in mental gymnastics though. I did nothing of the sort. Asking questions to test someone doesn't mean you hold those views.
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.
Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.
What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?
What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.
Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.
Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.
Please don't make assumptions. I remember Chomsky talking about the subject. Though there are some Black Panthers who have called for white babies to be burned, so going by your rules that justifies randomly punching any of them.
To some it seems to be. Some of the people on here are supportive of ethnic cleansing, depending on who carries it out
All neo Nazis believe in racial supremacy, that's a fact.
Also shooting someone and punching someone are not the same thing so they aren't really comparable. And again, as I said, police are trained to non violently de-escalate as well. That is part of their job. A civilian punching a neo Nazi is not on the same level as a police officer shooting a criminal. And most of these shootings have not been criminals anyways so it's a moot point.
_________________
Herein You Will Find Various And Numerous And Innumerable Hexes, Curses, Words In The Old Tongue To Cleave A’Twain Friend, Foe, Family Alike. If You So Choose. Money Hates Me, God Hates Me, My Wife Hates Me, My Own Hands Hate Me. But Thats All Beside The Point. The Point Is That My Time Here On Earth Runs Short. Im Not Dying But You All Are. Im A Glass Of Wine. Nothing Beats A Glass Of Wine. When The Kids Arent Home And Your A Mother Theres A Glass Of Wine There. A Glass Coffee Table And I’m A Glass Of Wine. Stressful Day When The Kids And you're Husband Then Glass Of Wine. Dark Chocolate Indulge. Petty Indulgences. When you're A Glass Of Wine And Let The Body’s Hit The Floor. When Your Glass Of Wine Is Running Short And You Say Heck What Of It. Why Dont I Have Another. Bartender I Am A Glass Of Wine. Bottoms Up And The Devil Laughs. The Bartender Remembers When It Happened. They All Remember When It Happened And If They Knew That You Dont Remember Then They Would Know That Something Is Awry Here Or So They Would Think. Something Would Be Amiss Or Smells Fishy. So Theyre All Relating There Stories Of Where They Were When That Event Happened And The Eyes Move Clockwise About The Room Where We All Share Our Glass Of Wine And Suddenly The Clock Ticks To You And They Ask The Fatal Question That Destroys Your Reputation, The Question You Could Never Answer, The Dead Giveaway: Where Were You When The Bodies Hit The Floor
While I don't like Webb's stance on gays in the military, I still like what I know of his other positions.
I agree with you on that. I like that fact he is a bit more conservatively minded and sees the other side. But that has its downsides.
But I am sick of the demonization we give to these people. Every single demagogue in history including Trump rode on people's anger at their inequality. Until we correct this the cycle will continue and continue. We can go on and on about how these people's beliefs are deplorable but until we look them in the face and help them nothing will change.
So let's reach out to these people they aren't all bad. I once read about a Stormfront person who gave support to their wife who was depressed and suicidal. This person likely had empathy. We have to see what is beneath.
While that is commendable, would that same Stormfront member do the same for a racial or sexual minority?
Jesus I think I am getting emotional in this.
His viewing someone else as evil simply for belonging to a minority group is indefensibly wrong.
I don't believe right comes into the equation for those people. Rather, it's all about feeding their hate and prejudice. Right and wrong doesn't come into the picture for them.
You want to end discrimination the way to do it is by giving support to the people of West Virginia, Kentucky and Mississippi, it will eliminate the fundamental level of anger that leads to resentment against different peoples. If we don't do this than all hell could break loose, this is after all how Hitler came to power. The German people were angry over their inequality and with it those who they perceived as having had more.
I can't guarantee this will make most people change. But it will end the vicious cycle of hatred as their children will become less dissatisfied with the system and the anger will not get passed on.
A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.
Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.
What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?
What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.
Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.
Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.
Please don't make assumptions. I remember Chomsky talking about the subject. Though there are some Black Panthers who have called for white babies to be burned, so going by your rules that justifies randomly punching any of them.
To some it seems to be. Some of the people on here are supportive of ethnic cleansing, depending on who carries it out
All neo Nazis believe in racial supremacy, that's a fact.
Also shooting someone and punching someone are not the same thing so they aren't really comparable. And again, as I said, police are trained to non violently de-escalate as well. That is part of their job. A civilian punching a neo Nazi is not on the same level as a police officer shooting a criminal. And most of these shootings have not been criminals anyways so it's a moot point.
How many actual neo Nazis are there in the US? And having that belief is hardly more dangerous than going around the world blowing people up for power, resources and money. Why not focus on the most serious problems. It's like how people focus on that church with 100 members that doesn't like gay people just because the ADL highlighted them. People throw these labels around too easily. Muhammed Ali believed black people were superior over whites, does that mean he was a neo Nazi?
I know I was just asking.
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
A lot of the people who defend Richard Spencer that I've talked to irl are people who claim that police brutality is justified. You'll show them a case where it is completely inarguable that the victim was unarmed and not being violent or showing any form of resistance (not that either are justification for killing people anyways, as police are supposed to be trained to non violently de-escalate violent situations), and they'll still say it was justified.
Shoot an unarmed black man? Justified. Punch a literal neo Nazi in the face? You're a terrible meanie and there's no justification for violence.
What if the unarmed black man is a criminal? Maybe he has some nasty views and calls women "hoes" and "b*****s"? Maybe he supports the Black Panthers?
What about if shooting an unarmed black person is wrong and punching a 'neo Nazi' in the face for no reason is also wrong? Anyone who justifies either is the one with the problem.
Research the black Panthers before speaking about them. The FBI purposely destroyed them and smeared their name after killing their key leaders. The Black Panthers provided a lot of very important services to the black community. Don't speak of what you don't understand.
Calling women derogatory names is also not on the same level as supporting ethnic cleansing. It's misogynistic but not murderous. Being a criminal is not justifiable for police to shoot you. They are taught to non violently de-escalate.
Please don't make assumptions. I remember Chomsky talking about the subject. Though there are some Black Panthers who have called for white babies to be burned, so going by your rules that justifies randomly punching any of them.
To some it seems to be. Some of the people on here are supportive of ethnic cleansing, depending on who carries it out
All neo Nazis believe in racial supremacy, that's a fact.
Also shooting someone and punching someone are not the same thing so they aren't really comparable. And again, as I said, police are trained to non violently de-escalate as well. That is part of their job. A civilian punching a neo Nazi is not on the same level as a police officer shooting a criminal. And most of these shootings have not been criminals anyways so it's a moot point.
Most Nazis I have seen on Stormfront believe in doing what they feel is right. Do you have any evidence that they are evil?
I’m answering having just read the opening post and watched the video.
Like t1j, I don't advocate violence, but at the same time I don't see friggin' Nazi-ism as being just another opinion like being pro-life or supporting the death penalty.
I’ve watched that video some days ago and already commented why I disagree with it on youtube.
Saying that his ideology is unacceptable and therefore it is justifiable and ‘okay’ to sucker punch that man is not right.
There are plenty ideologies that I think of as unacceptable and disgusting but that doesn’t give me the right to punch people who hold those ideologies, nor would I ever justify violent actions done by others against my political opponents.
Everyone – yes that includes Nazis – has the right of having their political opinion and stating that opinion without having their physical integrity threatened/taken and without being persecuted by the state or discriminated against by the law.
It is this man’s right to express his opinion but the other man has no right to punch him for it.
When you and that T1J guy together with many others say that it is “okay” to punch your political opponent and thereby violate his rights based on his political views and justify that with how unacceptable and disgusting you think his ideology is, then I’m sorry but that is nothing else but fascism!
This doesn’t have anything to do with defending Nazis. Heck, it isn’t even about Nazis.
It is about the entitlement of each individual to his own political opinion and freedom of expression.
However, let’s forget the question whether it is okay to punch your political opponents for a minute. Who do you think gained anything from that action? Who do you think this punch in the face helped?
It’s that little wanna-be Hitler and not the moronic dimwit who punched him in the face. He is probably happy that he has been punched.
He is the one who looks innocent in this scenario, he is the one who gains the victim points and he is the one who now gets the attention. This also made more people know who Richard Spencer is.
As a foreigner I’ve never heard of that guy before, I didn’t have a clue who this was. But when I saw a video of this incident, I asked myself:” Who is this man? Why did he get punched? Why are they calling him a Nazi?” And I did my researched on that idiot.
Anyhow, punching your political opponent is not okay. Don’t punch your political opponents, debate them, use facts, use arguments then you can win.
But by using violence against someone who didn’t use violence against you, you will cause damage to your own side and standpoint.
_________________
“I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies but not the madness of people.” - Isaac Newton
What do you think are the intentions of the Neo-Nazis? Tell me ONE good intention!! !
Nobody has the right to cold-cock a Nazi--but I certainty would feel the desire to do so in my mind. Their "ancestors" killer millions of people of many nationalities because of some notion of "Aryans" being superior or something.
This without Hitler, in any way, exhibiting "Aryan" characteristics.
