Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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puddingmouse
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01 Mar 2012, 3:32 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

Wouldn't you say feminism is almost a conspiracy theory in a way? Now, I have nothing against conspiracy theories, I think a lot of them are true, but the 'patriarchy' thing is very similar in some ways to the whole 'New World Order' idea.

I don't think there is any conspiracy at work. I actually think patriarchy is tied to human nature in the same way that war is. However, just because this form of social behaviour evolved in humans as a way to propagate ourselves across the globe quickly, doesn't mean that it is ethical or desirable to continue acting the same way at this stage of humanity.

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01 Mar 2012, 3:40 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

I for one welcome our beautiful feminine overlords

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01 Mar 2012, 3:47 pm

LKL wrote:

I'm pretty much a 3rd waver, but one thing that I hear young feminists talking about lately is the concept of kyriarchy (vs. patriarchy), that being the multi-faceted, many layered system of unearned privilege and dominance that exists in a given culture. In addition to gender, it takes into account race, class, etc.
Young feminists are also talking about something called 'intersectionality,' which is the idea that any one person might experience multiple social defecits and multiple social advantages at the same time (for example, I'm white, heterosexual, and middle class, but I'm also female and non-neurotypical; someone else might be a white, heterosexual male, but also be working-class and under-educated; someone else might be a gay black female with a job as a professor at a large university; someone else might be a straight black woman from a family where no one has ever finished high school. etc).

I like this in the sense that it explores ways in which many different kinds of people have a unique set of challenges that they might be equally affected by and focuses less on the patriarchy and the disadvantages of being a woman.

OTOH, it offers a way for almost any member of society to present themselves as a victim. Is that helping anyone?

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Last edited by EXPECIALLY on 01 Mar 2012, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

donnie_darko
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01 Mar 2012, 3:49 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

How come there are matriarchal cultures too, though?

godoftruemercy
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01 Mar 2012, 4:48 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

How come there are matriarchal cultures too, though?

There actually are no matriarchal cultures (that we've found.) Men are bigger, after all.

Mike1
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01 Mar 2012, 5:08 pm

There are disadvantages to being a member of either sex. Oppression goes both ways. Here's a Wikipedia article that lists masculist concerns and the disadvantages of being male.

Wikipedia - Masculism

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01 Mar 2012, 5:10 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

It's been my experience that most 'self-described' feminists tend to have a chip on their shoulder and a no-nonsense, nun-like attitude about certain things, like calling women 'dude' or saying 'you guys' when some of the 'guys' are actually girls (seriously, who cares? I call everyone dude lol. girls call other girls dude these days).

If it is not a biggie for you, and it is such a big deal for "feminists" I don't get why can't you just stop calling girls "guys" when they are in groups. Like you said "Who cares?". Or do you feel that you have the right to call girls "guys"? If so, then who exactly makes a big deal of this?

donnie_darko wrote:

Another thing too is sometimes I think feminists get 'rights' and 'responsibilities' confused. Voting for example is a right, but it's also a responsibility. I don't vote, I think women should have the right to vote, but I see voting as equally being a responsibility/pain in the ass. In Australia you're forced to vote.

One of the feminist fights today is the right for women to serve in the army, I could guarantee you if we had a draft they wouldn't view that as a right they are denied, but as a responsibility they have the privilege of being excused from.

There's two sides to everything, voting and serving in the armed forces could either be seen as a right denied to women or a responsibility/duty women had the privilege of being excused from.

I cannot really think of a more ridiculous thing I've read during these last 30 days, and I read a lot of WP.net posts.

This is exactly what Egyptians sound like when they say that women shouldn't be allowed to drive because they are treated like princesses because other people drive too.

Just because it wouldn't be nice to be forced to do something, it doesn't mean that asking to be able to do that is not asking for freedom.

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01 Mar 2012, 5:20 pm

There are many things on there that I agree with.

One that I am very interested in is this:

"Societal failure to address prison rape, including issues such as prevention (e.g., reducing prison crowding that requires sharing of cells), impunity for prison rapists, and even correctional staff punishing prisoners by confining them with known rapists.[12] Prison rape is often used as a subject of humor in films such as Let's Go to Prison."

I think it's horrible what goes on in prisons and that no one does anything about it and that adult male on male rape is something almost no one ever talks about except with jokes about dropping the soap.

Also I have that movie and it was kind of dumb and had serious errors. I'd rather watch Oz.

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01 Mar 2012, 5:26 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

One of the feminist fights today is the right for women to serve in the army, I could guarantee you if we had a draft they wouldn't view that as a right they are denied, but as a responsibility they have the privilege of being excused from.

I'm against the draft for any gender. Regardless of my gender I'd be excused for mental and/or medical reasons.

Vexcalibur wrote:

This is exactly what Egyptians sound like when they say that women shouldn't be allowed to drive because they are treated like princesses because other people drive too.

I can't remember where I heard about it but I heard about some "My guardian knows what's best for me" organization in one of those arab countries. They support their own oppression.

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01 Mar 2012, 5:55 pm

godoftruemercy wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

How come there are matriarchal cultures too, though?

There actually are no matriarchal cultures (that we've found.) Men are bigger, after all.

\

Not true. There are a number of matriarchal cultures in Siberia(like the Sakha for example) and one in Alaska(the Tlingit). I believe there are also a few isolated matriarchal tribes elsewhere in China and southern Asia.

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01 Mar 2012, 6:11 pm

AspieRogue wrote:

godoftruemercy wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

How come there are matriarchal cultures too, though?

There actually are no matriarchal cultures (that we've found.) Men are bigger, after all.

+Africa.

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01 Mar 2012, 6:27 pm

Mike1 wrote:

I agree.

I understand why Masculism exists. It does prove a point and goes along with everything I agree with,mainly that everyone has a struggle and that one person's is not more important than the other's, but at the same time it's as bad as feminism.

Both sides are taking on the role of the victim and I just don't know where it ends.

I don't think either side will be happy until they've been altered to a degree that is no longer recognizable, so as not to discriminate or offend. Stripped of any characteristics that might make one "better" than the other until we're all ageless, genderless, weightless amorphous beings with no concrete views on anything except what is deemed "fair" (by whoever decides what is fair in the end), all in the name of equality.

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puddingmouse
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01 Mar 2012, 8:13 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

How come there are matriarchal cultures too, though?

It's not as common. It's mainly limited to isolated tribes, though it does happen. I said that patriarchy is a behaviour strategy adopted to maximise reproduction througuout most of the globe, but I don't think it's hard-wired. Perhaps it's not in the same category as war, or perhaps it is because peaceful societies also exist.

It's definitely 'deep' enough in humanity to avoid going into conspiracy territory.

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puddingmouse
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01 Mar 2012, 8:16 pm

EXPECIALLY wrote:

I don't think either side will be happy until they've been altered to a degree that is no longer recognizable, so as not to discriminate or offend. Stripped of any characteristics that might make one "better" than the other until we're all ageless, genderless, weightless amorphous beings with no concrete views on anything except what is deemed "fair" (by whoever decides what is fair in the end), all in the name of equality.

Or, how about when we all learn to treat each other well despite our differences?

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01 Mar 2012, 8:30 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

EXPECIALLY wrote:

Or, how about when we all learn to treat each other well despite our differences?

Do you agree with treating men well in spite of their differences if it means that they will have perceived advantages over women in some areas, the way women have some advantages over men?

If you do, wonderful.

If not, you probably fit in well with the many feminists who employ this double standard and take pleasure in doing so, refusing to accept that they hold contradictory beliefs and priding themselves on being "independent thinkers" when confronted with such inconsistencies and shooting them down.

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puddingmouse
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01 Mar 2012, 8:57 pm

EXPECIALLY wrote:

I have no interest in eliminating the natural differences between men and women, just like I have no interest in exaggerating them.

I'll reiterate what I said in a previous post: human rights don't mean anything unless they're universal.

There are a few female supremacists about, but most feminists regard them as completely insane. Your use of the phrase 'many feminists' suggests to me that you are building a straw woman here.

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