Is being gay wrong?

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i'm quite happy making it a non-religious argument. but it seems to me that all the anit-gay stuff has come from the religious (christian) quarter, and so i'd just like some justification/qualification for their arguments, which are conspicuous by their absence, thus far. and i do believe that there has been no religious argument in the (for want of a better word) "pro-gay" or "not bothered" camps ('scuse the pun), so i have to deduce from this that the religious argument was started (and continued) by the anti-gay camp.

huh? have you missed the (several) points about paedophile statistics? or is this a joke?

...but they have such impeccable dress sense!

PMSL ! !!

and "they keep their homes so nicely"!

I think the problem with homosexuality, from the straight point of view boils down to three things:

They think that anal sex is dirty. If people are having anal sex then they *must* be getting feces all over the place. That thought makes them uncomfortable.

They assume that anal sex must be painful. People obey the laws at least in part because of the fear that they will be sent to jail and someone will rape them.

At some conscious or sub-conscious level they are aware that sexuality is a spectrum and that they or their children might find some types of homerotic contact pleasurable in spite of their apparent heterosexuality. They know that smoking one too many cigarettes or drinking one too many beers can lead to addiction, and worry that the slightest dalliance could place them on a slippery slope toward full-blown homosexuality.

In all three cases, what they're really afraid of is their own thoughts. They don't know what's true and what isn't and don't want to find out. More than anything else, I think they're afraid to find themselves being subjected to the same sorts of abuse they so greatly enjoy heaping on others.

I don't think the Bible ever gives a reason why *anything* is wrong, other than to call it "an abomination". This is the ultimate "because I said so" type of reasoning - God doesn't like it because, well, God just doesn't like it. Religions protect themselves by teaching the practitioners to "have faith" and to accept "His will" as justification for the lack of reasons given for what God thinks or does.

The only thing that really bothers me about the whole Christian religion is the fact that they expect everyone else to live by their code. Only 43% of the population of Canada is Catholic, and yet the Pope had the nerve to tell Canada's politicians (many of which aren't even Christian, let alone Catholic) how to vote on gay issues. Furthermore, we live in a democracy, not a theocracy, so even the Catholic members of Parliament are expected to represent the needs of their riding, not their church.

Some people think that "love the sinner but hate the sin" is a reasonable compromise. Well, I'm not Christian and therefore don't think homosexuality is a sin at all. Gay Catholics want your pity; I don't.

'vetivert wrote:

i still would like to hear from all the people who've been quoting the bible and saying it IS wrong. the silence so far is deafening...'

Well, you need to consider how many people might have you on ignore.

Jetson, you know what you described? You described those countless idiots who say "two girls....that's hot", "two guys...thats just nasty".

Would like to point out that I have never met a lesbian couple like the ones they portray on porn. Usually it's been a butch and a femme, or a semi-butch and a femme. But I've never known two super-type model femmes going at it anywhere but on the tv screen.

FANTASY.

I don't think most guys would want to see a porn of a femme and a butch getting funky, no sir.

Most gay/lesbian couples I've met consist of one person who's obviously gay, and another that acts straight.

Here's a start. I've listed some of the other activities that go on in conjunctinon with homosexuality:

Exhibitionism - involves people who are sexually aroused by the idea of exposing their genitals to a stranger.
Fetishism - involves people who are sexually aroused by nonliving objects.
Frotteurism - involves people who are sexually aroused by the idea of touching and rubbing against a nonconsenting person.
Pedophilia - involves people who are sexually attracted to prepubescent children (usually 13 years or younger).
Sexual Masochism - involves people who are sexually aroused by being "humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer."
Sexual Sadism - involves people who are sexually aroused by causing the psychological or physical suffering of a victim (e.g., "restraint, blindfolding, paddling, spanking, whipping, pinching, beating, burning, electrical shocks, rape, cutting, stabbing, strangulation, torture, mutilation, or killing").
Transvestic Fetishism - involves people who are sexually aroused by cross-dressing.
Voyeurism - involves people who are sexually aroused by watching unsuspecting strangers have sex.
Telephone Scatologia - involves people who are sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls.
Necrophilia - involves people who are sexually attracted to corpses.
Partialism - involves people who are sexually attracted to exclusively one part of the body.
Zoophilia - involves people who are sexually attracted to animals.
Coprophilia - involves people who are sexually aroused by feces.
Klismaphilia - involves people who are sexually aroused by enemas.
Urophilia - involves people who are sexually aroused by urine.

thought so.

amazingly, they can still reply to other posts... technology must be more marvellous than i thought.

if i AM on ignore, then it rather underlines my point about people who are willing to listen and people who aren't. another reason i do not ignore people is that i need to listen to the views of others, even if i find them absolutely offensive, as, otherwise, i am just a bigot with a closed mind.

Here's a start. I've listed some of the other activities that go on in conjunctinon with homosexuality:{/quote]

list edited for reasons of sanity.

thanks sean. and where exactly, in the bible, does it say that these activities are either exclusively reserved for homosexual people, or that hetereosexuals never indulge in them?

oh, and you forgot "apotemnophilia", which is one of my personal favourites, not because i'd ever dream of myself in connection with it, but because somenoe has actually come up with its own word. how wonderful is the rich tapestry we call life...

and i must say that your list gave me an absolute howl of a laugh this morning - how wonderful is the rich...etc., etc.

What Sean said are lame excuses. Plenty of straight people do most of those things, and there's plenty of gay people that don't. Are you going to blame the gay people who don't even do those things, and do nothing about straight people who do? Gimme a break.

Yes there can be lots of sexualitys, it's not all black and white, there is a grey area, but whether they're right or wrong, they're what makes the world an interesting place. Like it or not that's the way it is.

Sean, the above mentioned items do NOT reflect gay people, as more straight people do the above mentioned stuff than gay people. Whilst some gay people may make themselves readily known through style of dress or behaviour, most of us do not.

Furthermore, you would find that the great majority of gay people are quite mundane, and we want to live our lives free of governmental and societal oppression, much the same as you. --You will notice the complete silence of right wing demagogues on these matters, as broadly painting gay people as deviant serves their interests when it comes to maintaining vital cash income.

Of course its not wrong to be gay, its wrong to be angry.

How can (anti-gay) aspies expect to be accepted if they cant accept everyone else?

And what do you think about feminism? I am all for it