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Cut all the benefits/welfare, fix the economy

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xenon13
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16 Dec 2010, 1:54 pm

The British debt is low by historical standards. The debt in 1945 was over twice as large and they started the welfare state.



Joe90
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23 Jan 2011, 1:03 pm

I'm scared to post anything more about the economy, just in case I get people replying inappropriate replies. But I would love to talk about this sort of topic, because it's what most normal people complain about. But because I'm a sensitive person, I can't be doing with nastiness on these threads.

ps, I am not referring to the post above because that isn't inappropriate. I am just referring to certain posts I have read further back in this topic.


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23 Jan 2011, 1:08 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I'm scared to post anything more about the economy, just in case I get people replying inappropriate replies. But I would love to talk about this sort of topic, because it's what most normal people complain about. But because I'm a sensitive person, I can't be doing with nastiness on these threads.

ps, I am not referring to the post above because that isn't inappropriate. I am just referring to certain posts I have read further back in this topic.


People deal with such matters on two levels: the abstract, which is all about units and figures, and the personal, which is how things affect your own personal economy. When things involve the personal, it can get tetchy. A reduction of units in one man's parlance is a lost job in another.


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ruveyn
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25 Jan 2011, 3:20 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The British debt is low by historical standards. The debt in 1945 was over twice as large and they started the welfare state.


Which turned the British economy into a basket case.

Britain sank out of sight into the ooze of mediocrity.

ruveyn



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25 Jan 2011, 3:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The British debt is low by historical standards. The debt in 1945 was over twice as large and they started the welfare state.


Which turned the British economy into a basket case.

Britain sank out of sight into the ooze of mediocrity.

ruveyn


Actually Public Sector fraud accounts for way more cost than the welfare state. Not to mention corporate tax evasion. Its merely misdirection that people keep pointing towards benefits claimants as the cause of the collapse of power.

Of course you know what HAD happened in 1945? We had just come out of a GLOBAL war which crippled the empire, and then got saddled with US foreign policy demanding we give up the rest of it, and HUGE debts that nobody else bothered to pay for us, and a huge amount of reconstruction to do with no help, and expensive European security commitments... and so forth.


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25 Jan 2011, 8:52 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Actually Public Sector fraud accounts for way more cost than the welfare state. Not to mention corporate tax evasion. Its merely misdirection that people keep pointing towards benefits claimants as the cause of the collapse of power.

Of course you know what HAD happened in 1945? We had just come out of a GLOBAL war which crippled the empire, and then got saddled with US foreign policy demanding we give up the rest of it, and HUGE debts that nobody else bothered to pay for us, and a huge amount of reconstruction to do with no help, and expensive European security commitments... and so forth.


Socialism could not produce productivity. It can only equalize misery. If everyone is in a state of poverty and squalor socialism is a good pacifier for their miserable state. But it will not cure it.

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xenon13
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25 Jan 2011, 8:53 pm

The UK was turned into a basket case? What was it prime minister Harold MacMillan said in 1957 during the election campaign? Something about British people never having had it so good? Why do people think the age of Jack the Ripper was some kind of golden age? Jack the Ripper and workhouses.



xenon13
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25 Jan 2011, 8:55 pm

The British Empire was mainly damaged by the idiotic Geddes Axe and the return to the gold standard in the '20s - policies done for established wealth at the expense of the dynamic economy. They abandoned much of their fleet in the name of austerity back in the '20s. It was all cutbacks and that's what doomed the empire.



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25 Jan 2011, 9:01 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The British Empire was mainly damaged by the idiotic Geddes Axe and the return to the gold standard in the '20s - policies done for established wealth at the expense of the dynamic economy. They abandoned much of their fleet in the name of austerity back in the '20s. It was all cutbacks and that's what doomed the empire.


The British were having problems because they were seriously in debt to the United States following World War I. They were actually rather fortunate that we weren't actively trying to screw them over like China is attempting to do to the United States.



ruveyn
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25 Jan 2011, 11:10 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The UK was turned into a basket case? What was it prime minister Harold MacMillan said in 1957 during the election campaign? Something about British people never having had it so good? Why do people think the age of Jack the Ripper was some kind of golden age? Jack the Ripper and workhouses.


Two world wars bankrupted the Empire. The rise of the Socialists did not help the Empire to recover.

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25 Jan 2011, 11:36 pm

Economy for economy's sake is rather empty and dull.

Why fix the economy if doing so does not improve our capacity to get resources and to live proper lives?


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ruveyn
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25 Jan 2011, 11:52 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Economy for economy's sake is rather empty and dull.

Why fix the economy if doing so does not improve our capacity to get resources and to live proper lives?


What is proper? What you say is proper? Who are you?

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26 Jan 2011, 1:35 am

I've read through a couple of pages of this discussion and it looks like Asp-Z is proposing cargo cult capitalism.



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26 Jan 2011, 2:09 am

xenon13 wrote:
People on the Right have been very consistent in claiming Capitalism to be the state religion. Under Capitalism, they say, the economy is in the hands of corporations, governments must serve corporations. Corporations exist only for profit and have no social function. So by definition, governments must care only for profits of corporations. This, they claim, will cause a spinoff effect - that this will cause the "economy" to improve and this will trickle down benefits to the people who are obligated to figure out ways to be useful to business. It's fitting that the Catfood Commission proclaimed that in the bright future they hope to build, workers will be able to "compete for jobs"... Business have no obligations to anyone, however, a totally one-sided arrangement. Despite claiming that work is a virtue and people should improve themselves through work, they also insist that a huge percentage of the paid jobs be paid poverty wages, so they clearly insist that large numbers of working people be poor. Their principles also demand that the owners and controllers have the right to take as much money as they can, and with it, they build their power at the expense of the rest of society and build feudalism. Theirs is truly dystopia, and they justify it in the name of a deranged Social Darwinism.


What was that sign at Aushwitz? Work will make you free. :lol:



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26 Jan 2011, 6:19 am

NathanealWest wrote:
What was that sign at Aushwitz? Work will make you free. :lol:


Yes and so it did. Hitler created public housing. A young couple could buy a house. If they had a child then 25% was taken off their mortgage, Two children 50%. Three children 75% and after the forth child you owned your house outright.

Hitler bought cruise liners so that German workers could have have overseas vacations.
Britain did not allow those liners to dock because they didn't want the British workers to see how much better the German workers lived during the depression.



ruveyn
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26 Jan 2011, 6:21 am

Wombat wrote:
NathanealWest wrote:
What was that sign at Aushwitz? Work will make you free. :lol:


Yes and so it did. Hitler created public housing. A young couple could buy a house. If they had a child then 25% was taken off their mortgage, Two children 50%. Three children 75% and after the forth child you owned your house outright.

Hitler bought cruise liners so that German workers could have have overseas vacations.
Britain did not allow those liners to dock because they didn't want the British workers to see how much better the German workers lived during the depression.


Isn't that wonderful! Too bad A.H. and his buddies burned books and eventually burned people.

ruveyn