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What do you think about abortion

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nerdygirl
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16 Apr 2016, 8:15 am

wilburforce wrote:

A clump of cells is not viable outside of the womb; it needs to be connected to the mother via the placenta, and the mother's body works on the clump of cells continuously over 9 months to turn it into a baby. It's not just a matter of being larger, it's a matter of being an individual self-sustaining sentient organism--in regards to mother and fetus, only one of those is an individual self-sustaining sentient organism and the other only has the genetic potential to be such but won't achieve individuality and sentience without the mother's body feeding it the right nutrients for 9 months.



Since when are babies self-sustaining? A baby relies 100% on OTHERS providing proper nutrients and shelter in order for it to survive. According to your logic, infanticide should be the choice of the parents/guardians.



Spiderpig
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16 Apr 2016, 9:59 am

In fact, it naturally is.


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BaalChatzaf
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16 Apr 2016, 11:13 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
One doesn't have to believe in any god to think murdering an unborn child is wrong

True, but one does need to *prove* that said life is indeed a child.


Give it 9 months and there is all the proof you need, give it another 9-12 months and they can tell you themselves.

Just to be clear, I support birth control and whatever else needed to avoid these pregnancies in the first place. If you don't want a child then I believe there are more than enough options.


No, that does not prove that the organism 9 months earlier was a person at that point in time.

That's like saying, "the proof that a stack of paper and a pen is a book can be seen by looking at a completed book". It's a false equivalency.


A human at birth is not a person. It lacks brain mass and interconnections. However the brain is one of the fastest growing organs in the human body (at birth) and in a month or so one has an infant capable of autonomy and self awareness. That sounds like a person to me.


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pcuser
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16 Apr 2016, 11:20 am

BaalChatzaf wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
One doesn't have to believe in any god to think murdering an unborn child is wrong

True, but one does need to *prove* that said life is indeed a child.


Give it 9 months and there is all the proof you need, give it another 9-12 months and they can tell you themselves.

Just to be clear, I support birth control and whatever else needed to avoid these pregnancies in the first place. If you don't want a child then I believe there are more than enough options.


No, that does not prove that the organism 9 months earlier was a person at that point in time.

That's like saying, "the proof that a stack of paper and a pen is a book can be seen by looking at a completed book". It's a false equivalency.


A human at birth is not a person. It lacks brain mass and interconnections. However the brain is one of the fastest growing organs in the human body (at birth) and in a month or so one has an infant capable of autonomy and self awareness. That sounds like a person to me.

I already played the sentience card and they ignore it or simply claim it's not true...



Jacoby
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16 Apr 2016, 11:29 am

BaalChatzaf wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
One doesn't have to believe in any god to think murdering an unborn child is wrong

True, but one does need to *prove* that said life is indeed a child.


Give it 9 months and there is all the proof you need, give it another 9-12 months and they can tell you themselves.

Just to be clear, I support birth control and whatever else needed to avoid these pregnancies in the first place. If you don't want a child then I believe there are more than enough options.


No, that does not prove that the organism 9 months earlier was a person at that point in time.

That's like saying, "the proof that a stack of paper and a pen is a book can be seen by looking at a completed book". It's a false equivalency.


A human at birth is not a person. It lacks brain mass and interconnections. However the brain is one of the fastest growing organs in the human body (at birth) and in a month or so one has an infant capable of autonomy and self awareness. That sounds like a person to me.


Maybe somebody will decide you're not really a person and kill you, with that logic they definitely can and it HAS happened. Most of mankind is dependent on others for survival, should we kill the homeless and infirm? Human life is human life, you're not more or less of a person than someone else based on size or age or any other arbitrary reason. Even Hans Asperger said to more impaired on the spectrum have little societal worth, it seems like a Nazi doctor's obsession with utilizing savants which I don't think most of us are rather than genuine humanitarianism which probably goes a long way in explaining this dumb stuff about saying every whatever historical figure was on the spectrum and these super special interests and abilities rather than addressing the disability. Life should be protected, children should be protected, it's not something that is disposable.



Last edited by Jacoby on 16 Apr 2016, 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spiderpig
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16 Apr 2016, 11:41 am

Jacoby wrote:
Most of mankind is dependent on others for survival, should we kill the homeless and infirm?


You don't need to waste your time and get your hands dirty by actively killing someone when you can just let them starve, away, without inconveniencing you. Only if they desperately try to steal something from you do you need to get involved, and then it's a matter of legitimate self-defense.


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cathylynn
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16 Apr 2016, 12:15 pm

one of the most knowledgeable and compassionate doctors i ever met does abortions for god.