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Master_Pedant
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01 Dec 2010, 1:19 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The way Obama has behaved so far, it's easier to appreciate the US people's decision to choose Bush over Dukakis in '88.


Drew Westen wrote:
He [Obama] doesn't need a chief of staff. He needs someone to shake him until he feels something strongly enough not just to talk about it but to act. He's increasingly appearing to the public, and particularly to swing voters, like Dukakis without the administrative skill. And although he is likely to squeak by with a personal victory in 2012 if the economy improves by then, he may well do so with a Republican Congress. But then I suppose he'll get the bipartisanship he always wanted.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/drew-west ... 98813.html


If that is your star witness, your argument is in serious trouble. The National Enquirer has a better record than Huffington.


1) Since the Huffington Post has a great variety of authors and loose editorial control, it's really the authors who matter more than the production. While the Huffington Post has a lot of moronic articles (particularly when it comes to medicine), it also has gems like the above article.
2) You really should've spent two minutes googling "Drew Westen" before shooting yourself in the foot so comically.


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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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01 Dec 2010, 4:21 am

Without reading the other responses first, here is my take on the question asked by the title of this thread:

Many see the Republican Party today as one that emphasizes individual freedom, smaller government, and moral values. It tends to favor businesses and rich people over poor people, but mainly in a laissez-faire free enterprise model according to some without letting lazy people sponge off those who actually earn their money.

I agree with some of these ideas, but in general I see the Republicans as the party of short-sighted corporate greed and religious fanatics who, if they had their way, would destroy the very principles our country was founded upon and possibly destroy the planet and humanity as well. Since I started voting in the early 1980s I have seen the Republicans more than the Democrats make stupid decisions that favor the very rich at the expense of everyone and everything else. They more than the Democrats are the puppets of rich corporations that rape and poison the planet just to make a quick buck regardless of future consequences. Makes me sick!

Also, for all their talk of being the party of individual freedom it is the Republicans who legislate against it the most. Even some Republicans who focus on the Constitutional and business issues are upset that the Religious Right of evangelical fundamentalist Christianity has hijacked their party. The religious fanatics do stupid things like trying to dumb down everyone else's children by limiting the teaching of evolution for example, which is just as silly as trying to outlaw gravity or legislate the value of pi.

In general I think most people who vote Republican do so either because they want to keep the government's hands out of their pockets or because they see the Democrats espousing programs that are evil.

The original post talks about the different standards used by conservatives and liberals when weighing decisions, that liberals for example don't put as much weight on tradition and authority as conservatives do. In the past year I had heard of some of the studies done about this, and it makes sense to me why sometimes we don't understand why those other people don't "get" it when it is so clear to us.

I am The Bicycling Guitarist, and I endorsed this message. :lol:


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Inuyasha
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01 Dec 2010, 1:55 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The way Obama has behaved so far, it's easier to appreciate the US people's decision to choose Bush over Dukakis in '88.


Drew Westen wrote:
He [Obama] doesn't need a chief of staff. He needs someone to shake him until he feels something strongly enough not just to talk about it but to act. He's increasingly appearing to the public, and particularly to swing voters, like Dukakis without the administrative skill. And although he is likely to squeak by with a personal victory in 2012 if the economy improves by then, he may well do so with a Republican Congress. But then I suppose he'll get the bipartisanship he always wanted.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/drew-west ... 98813.html


If that is your star witness, your argument is in serious trouble. The National Enquirer has a better record than Huffington.


1) Since the Huffington Post has a great variety of authors and loose editorial control, it's really the authors who matter more than the production. While the Huffington Post has a lot of moronic articles (particularly when it comes to medicine), it also has gems like the above article.


The Huffington Post is a left-wing partisan hack site similar to move-on.org which has next to no credibility. Both receive funding by George Soros.

Master_Pedant wrote:
2) You really should've spent two minutes googling "Drew Westen" before shooting yourself in the foot so comically.


No, you just shot yourself in the foot. While the know far-left outlets like Daily Kos, Huffington Post, New York Times, politico, etc. sing this guy praise songs and he happens to be a psychologist, he is still obviously biased in his research. You may choose to take a far-leftpartisan hack's opinion as the gospel truth but I don't.

An example of him supporting Big Government and Pro-Obama:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -socialism

He isn't even remotely objective and I don't particularly care that he teaches at a University (though it sure shows why our education system has gone downhill), he's a quack.



LKL
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01 Dec 2010, 4:59 pm

hahahahahahah.
Great one on Soros. It's like you couldn't even type if you didn't listen to Beck every night. The research must be painful, but the result is exquisite.



xenon13
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01 Dec 2010, 5:52 pm

John Russell killed millions as Prime Minister of Britain in the name of a free market experiment. I think the problem with many Republican supporters is that they are unaware of such things, that free market experimentation is just as deadly as any botched communist experiments.



Inuyasha
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01 Dec 2010, 5:59 pm

LKL wrote:
hahahahahahah.
Great one on Soros. It's like you couldn't even type if you didn't listen to Beck every night. The research must be painful, but the result is exquisite.


I actually don't listen to Beck every night, in fact I'm usually on campus or driving home or something when he is on and to be frank I don't watch that much TV anymore. The fact that Obama freaks out concerning what may be on Beck makes me wonder if he is actually onto something. Bush never freaked out about Olberman.

xenon13 wrote:
John Russell killed millions as Prime Minister of Britain in the name of a free market experiment. I think the problem with many Republican supporters is that they are unaware of such things, that free market experimentation is just as deadly as any botched communist experiments.


There is a difference between being Conservative and being a anarchist, Conservatives believe there should be some ground rules. Also I will point out that the United States was built on the principle of freedom and self-determination which is not what countries in Europe are based off of.



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01 Dec 2010, 6:34 pm

No one wants to experiment with free reigning capitalism. They just want a return to a competitive environment.

What America needs is enforcement of anti trust laws and federal investment(either through grants or tax cuts) in small business. Really I would prefer if the amount of interstate incorporation and incorporation in general was controlled more. The businesses we have now have too much power and use it too either absorb or crush business that would prove competitive. However the problems will just rise again in a few years if businesses are not prevented from lobbying and limited from supplying money to the legislative.



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01 Dec 2010, 7:08 pm

Once the government invests in a company, small business, etc. like any investor they have some control over the company or small business. The problem is government overreach and that would contribute to the problem.

Speaking of Overreach:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_H ... ontroversy

Yes the neutrality is being challenged and yes it is wikipedia, but I'm too busy to find the primary source articles at the moment.



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01 Dec 2010, 7:15 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Once the government invests in a company, small business, etc. like any investor they have some control over the company or small business. The problem is government overreach and that would contribute to the problem.


Not really, if it was limited to start up money as a grant(tax cuts that are based on gross income would be better i think) not a loan that could be applied for the influence they could apply would be very limited. I used the term invest in one of its loosest forms.



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01 Dec 2010, 11:55 pm

Russell's ideas were very much like the Republicans. The government was creating welfare dependency in blight-struck Ireland, he said, Irish people would have to pay for food aid, they'd have to work for it, they'd have to give up all their land and wealth before they could eat, and so forth... When Peel ran things people didn't starve, when Russell ran things they did.



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02 Dec 2010, 1:02 am

xenon13 wrote:
Russell's ideas were very much like the Republicans. The government was creating welfare dependency in blight-struck Ireland, he said, Irish people would have to pay for food aid, they'd have to work for it, they'd have to give up all their land and wealth before they could eat, and so forth... When Peel ran things people didn't starve, when Russell ran things they did.


Was his thoughts similar to Republicans or was he demonstrating the prejudices of the time that Irish people were somehow inferior and therefore not worth helping. Before you label Conservatives as heartless using a Brit as an example, how about you look at the other factors.



Master_Pedant
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02 Dec 2010, 1:12 am

Inuyasha wrote:
The Huffington Post is a left-wing partisan hack site similar to move-on.org which has next to no credibility. Both receive funding by George Soros.


So, during a political debate, you want me to quote a political argument I agree with from a non-ideological source? The point isn't so much the facts contained in the article (though most of the actual premises are pretty much impossible to contest, even if you disagree with the conclusion or inferneces) as it is the arguments he made.

Inuyasha wrote:
No, you just shot yourself in the foot. While the know far-left outlets like Daily Kos, Huffington Post, New York Times, politico, etc. sing this guy praise songs and he happens to be a psychologist, he is still obviously biased in his research. You may choose to take a far-leftpartisan hack's opinion as the gospel truth but I don't.


You pretty much failed to address his argument, but I still think a person who conducts peer-reviewed research on subjects has a bit more credibility then somehow who sits in front of a computer regurgitating Republican talking points they memorized from Fox News with their "very good memory".


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02 Dec 2010, 1:12 am

Inuyasha wrote:
was he demonstrating the prejudices of the time that Irish people were somehow inferior and therefore not worth helping.


Substitute blacks for Irish and it certainly sounds like republicans.


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Inuyasha
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02 Dec 2010, 12:40 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
was he demonstrating the prejudices of the time that Irish people were somehow inferior and therefore not worth helping.


Substitute blacks for Irish and it certainly sounds like republicans.


Are you next going to go with the Democrat scare tactic, "If you vote Republican Black Churches are going to burn."

Seriously, Republicans think the entire thing of racism is stupid. Yes ancestor of person A did something to ancestor of person B, get over it! Person B is not his/her ancestor and is innocent of whatever slight that occurred. Republicans don't even want race to be given in college entry applications, because if they don't know what race someone is there is no chance for someone to be discriminatory towards that person based on race.

If you want to see race discrimination look no further than your Democrat Idols, NPR is made up of people that are Democrats and they fired Juan Williams for comments taken blatently out of context, while Fox News, whom you claim is racist, extended and expanded his contract. Also Fox News has a person that is Hispanic that has his own show. There are also some women such as Greta Van Sustra and Megan Kelly that host their own shows on Fox News. Btw, Geraldo is a liberal and so is Juan Williams, and Fox News wants them on because they are liberal and it provides some counterweight to people like Sean Hannity whom is obviously a Conservative.



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02 Dec 2010, 1:20 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
was he demonstrating the prejudices of the time that Irish people were somehow inferior and therefore not worth helping.


Substitute blacks for Irish and it certainly sounds like republicans.


Are you next going to go with the Democrat scare tactic, "If you vote Republican Black Churches are going to burn."

Seriously, Republicans think the entire thing of racism is stupid. Yes ancestor of person A did something to ancestor of person B, get over it! Person B is not his/her ancestor and is innocent of whatever slight that occurred. Republicans don't even want race to be given in college entry applications, because if they don't know what race someone is there is no chance for someone to be discriminatory towards that person based on race.

If you want to see race discrimination look no further than your Democrat Idols, NPR is made up of people that are Democrats and they fired Juan Williams for comments taken blatently out of context, while Fox News, whom you claim is racist, extended and expanded his contract. Also Fox News has a person that is Hispanic that has his own show. There are also some women such as Greta Van Sustra and Megan Kelly that host their own shows on Fox News. Btw, Geraldo is a liberal and so is Juan Williams, and Fox News wants them on because they are liberal and it provides some counterweight to people like Sean Hannity whom is obviously a Conservative.


Image



ikorack
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02 Dec 2010, 1:33 pm

number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
was he demonstrating the prejudices of the time that Irish people were somehow inferior and therefore not worth helping.


Substitute blacks for Irish and it certainly sounds like republicans.


Are you next going to go with the Democrat scare tactic, "If you vote Republican Black Churches are going to burn."

Seriously, Republicans think the entire thing of racism is stupid. Yes ancestor of person A did something to ancestor of person B, get over it! Person B is not his/her ancestor and is innocent of whatever slight that occurred. Republicans don't even want race to be given in college entry applications, because if they don't know what race someone is there is no chance for someone to be discriminatory towards that person based on race.

If you want to see race discrimination look no further than your Democrat Idols, NPR is made up of people that are Democrats and they fired Juan Williams for comments taken blatently out of context, while Fox News, whom you claim is racist, extended and expanded his contract. Also Fox News has a person that is Hispanic that has his own show. There are also some women such as Greta Van Sustra and Megan Kelly that host their own shows on Fox News. Btw, Geraldo is a liberal and so is Juan Williams, and Fox News wants them on because they are liberal and it provides some counterweight to people like Sean Hannity whom is obviously a Conservative.


Image


That isn't an argument.