Misogyny/MRA is a sign of weakness

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I'm a bit androgynous, it's just that Kurgan has this idea that any bit of masculinity in a woman is an ugly imperfection. In his eyes, I'd be untermensch. He also thinks that women he classes as 'ugly and masculine' are all massively jealous of the ones he deems feminine and hot. I was just telling him that I'm not jealous of them.

I can't be arsed being jealous and bitter. I'm too busy having fun being myself.

In my experience, they do get laid. And are good in bed.

If that was an attack against me, I never once identified as feminist. I agree: when a guy calls himself a feminist--and he is not gay--a lot of people are going to assume he's either (1) a desperate ass kisser or (2) that he's simply using it as a pickup line -- whether this is fair or not. As for myself, my reasons for agreeing with feminists on many things are deep and complicated -- and as much based on self-interest as they are on concern for others.

I am as much for women being held to the same standards as men (for example, more prosecutions of female child molesters) as I am for equality in ways that benefit women. I probably would identify as MRA--and used to do so while I was ignorant about what MRA was--if MRA weren't simply a term for "anti-feminist." I was shocked to learn that MRA's like me have not existed since the 1970's.

Anyway, the point of this thread was not about sticking up for women. It was about negatively judging certain groups of men. Many of the alpha males on Wall Street would likely agree with almost everything I said in the OP. They are sexist in the machisimo way, but even some feminists don't mind all aspects of machisimo so much; machisimo is often good in bed and is frequently just a fake act anyway; it can easily devolve into pretty equal give-and-take with a strong woman. Sure, some are abusers and date rapists and help to actively perpetuate the glass ceiling, but at least they only care about themselves. Creepy MRA's and creepy traditionalists who actively seek to roll back women's rights all over society are much worse than some macho a**hole who just cares about himself.

Something happened today that this thread has reminded me of: this (Friday) morning, some middle-aged white guy with bad skin (bad enough to look blotchy from across the street) parked his van across the street in front of my (black) neighbor's house and leaned out the window, shouting at the top of his lungs that 'the blacks and the Mexicans were surrounding all of the white people,' so I went downstairs and yelled at him that he needed to leave. I'm pretty pale-skinned, and he tried to tell me that I just hadn't heard what he was trying to explain; I told him that he was disturbing the peace, that he needed to leave, and that this was our neighborhood, not his. Then I pulled out my phone and started dialing 911; then the neighbor came out and said something to him right in his face that I assume was credibly threatening, because he skedaddled before the 911 operator even picked up.

My point being this: the people who fall in for racist s**t are usually losers, too, as was previously pointed out in the 'socioeconomic model' with the trust-fund girl who blows it all on meth and then blames the minorities. It's like a person who can't do anything right thinks to themselves, 'well, at least I'm white, and therefore better (i.e., should be able to rule over) than all of those brown people, but they're too uppity and don't know their place,' or, 'at least I have male gonads, and therefore better (ie, should be able to rule over/control) people with female gonads, but those uppity broads don't know their place.' It's all their fault that I'm down-and-out, because THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR PLACE.

People who are successful have neither the time nor the psychological need to be resentful of entire classes of other people.

In my experience, it's not so much a matter of actual socio-economic status as it is one of unhappiness.

A person is unhappy about some aspect of their life, and they go on to blame other people and/or society for that unhappiness. It's a lot easier on the ego to blame your dissatisfaction on someone else than it is to critically examine your role in creating your own problems, and then take decisive action to rectify your situation. Misery, whining, complaining, and blaming others is much easier and more comfortable than making the effort to change.

Frustration + emotional immaturity = lashing out at others.

It's the "Culture of Victimhood." Everyone's a "persecuted victim" and completely beyond reproach or criticism. If you disagree with their "victimhood," you're obviously one of the Evil Oppressors!! ! Holding people accountable for their own lives is one of the most politically incorrect things you can do.

It makes me puke. It's one of the reasons I avoid the sewer that is the L&D forum (that, and being lectured about how easy my life and dating is as a woman by unemployed and/or financially dependent boys who are still living with mom and dad).

The genders are NOT equal. Woman can grow and birth babies. Men cannot.

ruveyn

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MRA's are some of the most pathetic manchildren I have ever encountered. The ones that actually seem concerned with equal rights almost never get their voices heard over the loud din of butthurt originating from the crowd of self-identified MRAs who are more interested in maintaining "traditional" gender roles than they are with promoting the right of fathers to see their children after a divorce or etc

Of course they do, hence the impotent rage directed at them by the puny males identifying as MRA's. They absolutely hate men who don't agree with their viewpoint and will focus their criticism on de-masculinizing them.

I think you guys should read the paragraph I wrote above that and heed the

This is something people do whenever faced with challenges to their world views, feminists probably get it more than anyone to be honest. I thought the "losers of the system" was an interesting phrasing, wouldn't the losers of any system be disgruntled with it? Is it weird for them to feel victimized? Were women the "losers of the system before the 19th amendment?(or whenever you want to draw that line) What about blacks in the south? You can buy their argument as legitimate or not but I think personally attacking them reflects worse on you than it does them.

So how are men victimized? They aren't. Most men do just fine. Losers lose. That's not discrimination. It's life. Men have plenty of advantages, but a few men suffer from personal shortcomings. There is no civil rights issue here unless losers are a protected class.

Instead of fixing their worthless little selves, MRA's just attack an entire gender with whining or rape threats against feminists. So not only are MRA's losers, they are bigots and potential criminals.

You don't have to view their grievances as legitimate, I'm sure they disagree but attacking them personally doesn't help your argument. One could just as easily say that all feminists are fat and ugly man haters that should get laid and even if that was true; does that mean that the grievances feminism brings up should be dismissed offhand? Attack ideas not people.

Feeling victimized by women is ridiculous. Men are mostly victimized by either a.) other men or b.) themselves, via "macho insecurity" e.g. "If only I wasn't such a nice guy and was more of an alpha prick women would be falling over me". True radical feminists with fringe outlandish views are such a small powerless minority it makes little sense to feel victimized by them, unless you're one of those who wants to turn the clock back to the 19th century.

I don't really know what a MRA is suppose to be or what the difference is between them and anti-feminists or whatever other label so I can't argue for them but dismissing the idea that men can be victimized by women is what is ridiculous and is honestly even kind of sexist. Women can't victimize men? Why is that? We hear all the time about the gender gap when referring to pay as some great crime against humanity but what about the gender gap when it comes to education or the gender gap when it comes to overall employment? Can women not "objectify" men?

What does turning back the clock to the 19th century even mean? I don't see many people advocating women not have the right to vote or that marriages should be arranged. Maybe I'm just sheltered when it comes to that.

I'm not saying victimization can't happen, but from reading up it seems like MRAs feel victimized because their wife left them and forced them to pay child support. They blame feminism for the fact that women don't want to stay with them. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Is there a litmus test for MRA? It's not a singular group is it? I don't see how you can generalize all these people.

The bias of family courts are legitimate criticism when it comes to feminism in my opinion and the divorce rate should be a major concern for everyone I think. The risks of getting married and having kids far outweighs benefits nowadays, what is point anymore? I get that women have been so empowered that they no longer have any incentive to stay in relationships they no longer wish to be apart of, that's great for those that were trapped in abusive or destructive marriages but the societal effects cannot be ignored. A woman can get divorced, take the kids, and take his money/property all because she is bored with the relationship and be no worse for wear.

My parents got married because my mother got pregnant with me, they made their relationship work for the benefit of their children and they're still together today. My mother fancied herself as somewhat of an old fashioned thinker(my mom and dad both grew up in religious households in small town Wisconsin) but if I were born today I doubt my parents would of stayed together or even get married in the first place. Most people accept the notion that children need to have a father figure in their lives but it seems we're moving away from that as society. What reason is there to get married or have kids? While the divorce rate has skyrocketed, the marriage rate has also nosedived. The birthrate has fallen below replacement level in most Western countries, where does that leave us as society? People are completely opting out.

It's easy to say these people simply want women to "barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen" but that derides the role of a homemaker as somehow less than. We'd be a lot better off as a society with a few more stay at home mothers and a few less "empowered" Starbucks baristas with a useless degree and 100k in debt. Unfortunately, being a stay at home parent is not a privilege most people have anymore, most couples need the two incomes to just get by. My parents certainly did.

I never refered to anyone as sub-human. The fact of the matter is, though, that men are programmed to seek out feminine women.

I've never said that all feminists are masculine, ugly or jealous; the ones who scream the loudest are, though. This woman wants to ban porn altogether,and is to blame for the fact that Hooters didn't get to open their doors in Norway. She's also ordered vandalism on sex shops and strip clubs.

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Would she be this bitter and resentful if she wasn't envious of more attractive women? Would she be this passive-agressive and jealous if she looked like Emma Wattson instead of Mikey Teutul? I doubt it. She's not the most famous Norwegian feminist, nor the most powerful one—but she sees herself as some kind of empress of all feminists, though—and there are many like her in the States as well (Andrea Dworkin is a great example and so is that ugly redhead who shouts "shut the f*ck up" all the time).