ZIMMERMAN VERDICT IS IN - NOT GUILTY

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simon_says
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19 Jul 2013, 7:09 pm

Quote:

I seem to recall from previous discussions on SYG last year that you’re against citizen armed self-defense to start with. What I see from you here is only post-trial speculation tainted by preordained beliefs (or fears) and that’s putting it tactfully.

Nice speculation yourself. Is that a divine right to speculate or can others join in? Well, you let us know your majesty.

Raptor
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19 Jul 2013, 7:24 pm

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

Nice speculation yourself. Is that a divine right to speculate or can others join in? Well, you let us know your majesty.

No, on my part it's more of a hypothesis. It's not a divine right but at least I can go back and find discussions where you made your thoughts on armed self defense be known. Add to that I'm not deeply speculating with prejudice on what happened that unfortunate night between Zimmerman and Martin like you are. You don't have to address me as Your Majesty, Your Excellency will do quite nicely.

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Last edited by Raptor on 19 Jul 2013, 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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19 Jul 2013, 7:25 pm

When this thread gets to 20 pages, I'm going to ask the mods to close it.

sliqua-jcooter
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19 Jul 2013, 7:27 pm

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

Nice speculation yourself. Is that a divine right to speculate or can others join in? Well, you let us know your majesty.

Ok, so I'll come right out and ask: what is your opinion of armed self-defense?

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Raptor
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19 Jul 2013, 7:40 pm

Fnord wrote:

When this thread gets to 20 pages, I'm going to ask the mods to close it.

You knew good and well it was going to be a long one with exactly this kind of discourse when you started.
Don't go calling the fire department when you're the arsonist.

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vermontsavant
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19 Jul 2013, 7:44 pm

Raptor wrote:

Fnord wrote:

When this thread gets to 20 pages, I'm going to ask the mods to close it.

You knew good and well it was going to be a long one with exactly this kind of discourse when you started.
Don't go calling the fire department when you're the arsonist.

i think i was the first on who predicted that it would be a 30 page thread

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simon_says
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19 Jul 2013, 7:54 pm

As Ive said many time I have no problem with unarmed self defense or armed self defense. Raptor just throws out that confetti every time. Don't mind him. But I have also said that I'm not a fan of SYG laws because people who are unsuited to the role may attempt to play cop and do it poorly. There were a number of threads about that last year before the Zimmerman case iirc.

Anyway, back to commenting on the thread's subject I suppose.

Quote:

Well, a hypothesis would imply that you intend to make some good faith effort in future to determine the truth value of your claims. But you have no interest in that. YOu are engaging in deflection in an effort to shut down a line of discussion that you don't approve of but also don't care to engage. Back to the topic.

Quote:

Basically what she's saying is that Trayvon didn't intend to kill Zimmerman, just "whoop his ass". Morgan then tries to steer her into saying he was 'whooping ass' in self defense

Has nothing to do with who started the fight. Her testimony had Martin confronted and him saying "get off, get off". The implication being that Zimmerman had laid hands on him in some way. I think Zimmerman was likely getting his ass kicked by the end. I don't know what happened at the beginning.

Last edited by simon_says on 19 Jul 2013, 8:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Greb
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19 Jul 2013, 8:23 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Basically what she's saying is that Trayvon didn't intend to kill Zimmerman, just "whoop his ass". Morgan then tries to steer her into saying he was 'whooping ass' in self defense.

According to you, what 'whoopping somebody's ass' means exactly?

Because as long as I know, it means, litterally, to beat somebody.

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Fnord
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19 Jul 2013, 11:05 pm

Raptor wrote:

Fnord wrote:

When this thread gets to 20 pages, I'm going to ask the mods to close it.

You knew good and well it was going to be a long one with exactly this kind of discourse when you started. Don't go calling the fire department when you're the arsonist.

Oh, it's not for the fire that I would ask to have the thread closed, it's because it has outlasted its usefulness.

Haven't we all heard enough about George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin, and the media-driven turmoil surrounding this case over the last 18 months?

I mean, IT'S OVER!

The fire's out, the firemen have left, and people are just looking for the last few stray embers to fan back into flames.

Raptor
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20 Jul 2013, 11:18 am

Fnord wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Fnord wrote:

When this thread gets to 20 pages, I'm going to ask the mods to close it.

You knew good and well it was going to be a long one with exactly this kind of discourse when you started. Don't go calling the fire department when you're the arsonist.

Apparently it's not over. Our fearless leader in the white house is still desperately fanning the flames.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23382880

"That all contributes to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different," Mr Obama said.

"When Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me, 35 years ago."

He shared his experiences of being racially profiled in the past, such as being followed while out shopping.

"There are very few African-American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars.

"There are very few African-Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she has a chance to get off," he said.

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LKL
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20 Jul 2013, 2:21 pm

Raptor wrote:

LKL wrote:

I hear a lot in the media about how Jeantel was 'humiliated,' but I was actually impressed with how calm she was, and how she kept her cool in the face of an attorney clearly trying to belittle her and her experience. I thought that she did a good job.

Rachel Jeantel was the prosecution’s star witness so it stands to reason that the defense attorneys of the accused are going to do their damndest to find holes her testimony, given what’s at stake. I have to admit that I didn’t get to watch her entire testimony or even close to half of it due to time conflicts. From what I heard from multiple sources including the media is that she got caught in a lie or two under oath which is, in effect, the blood in the water that tends to trigger a feeding frenzy for the opposing council.

She got caught in some inconsistencies between what she said at trial and what she initially said to the police - which, given the time period between the two, is basically what's going to happen with any uncoached or poorly coached witness.

GGPViper
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20 Jul 2013, 2:26 pm

Jacoby
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20 Jul 2013, 2:38 pm

People that think Zimmerman somehow planned to murder someone in cold blood are probably the most deluded people on the planet.

ruveyn
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20 Jul 2013, 4:02 pm

GGPViper wrote:

Is that your version of what happened?

GGPViper
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20 Jul 2013, 4:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Is that your version of what happened?

No, my version is that George Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder and subsequently acquitted in a court of law.

However, given the blatant, frequent (and in some cases - likely racist) attempts at character assassination against Trayvon Martin by introducing completely frivolous information about his past behaviour, I consider myself well within my rights to paint the character of George Zimmerman in a less than flattering light.

vermontsavant
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20 Jul 2013, 4:36 pm

GGPViper wrote:

However, given the blatant, frequent (and in some cases - likely racist) attempts at character assassination against Trayvon Martin by introducing completely frivolous information about his past behaviour, I consider myself well within my rights to paint the character of George Zimmerman in a less than flattering light.

the refferences to prior pot use or any other prior " BAD ACT" in most trials would be inadmissible in court.however the law states that if an issue is made a the charactor or morals of a relavent individual in a trial prior bad acts can be used to refute charactor witness evidence.in other words had the prosecution not tried to paint trayvon martin as a innocent boy scout and that zimmerman only confronted him because he was a black teenager,then his prior pot could never have been mentioned in court.

if your on trial for a crime and you have manslaughter,armed robbery,kidnapping,attemted muder on your criminal history record, that cant be mentioned in court unless you make an issue of your own morales as a reason your not guilty

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