Facts about racism

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Absolute white guilt tripe. You really must turn your TV off for a while. Please give some examples of rich black people who get arrested for being black.

Just for the record, are they also required to have a completely clean criminal record, including juvenile, and no history of statements expressing any kind of grievance against society?

"I disagree with you so I'm putting you in my counter-group"

More othering. Do you even realise you're doing it?



Was going to respond to Bill, but kraftiekortie's point by point rejection of his assumptions was clear enough. Completely agree on the "white guilt tripe" point. It's a cultural absurdity that's very specific to the US, though it's not dissimilar to German guilt.

To be fair in debates these days everyone seems to dismiss the other group immediately with labeling.

There's labelling and then there's othering. Dismissing someone by claiming they're in the group that you personally view as "personae non gratae" is worse than the resultant genetic fallacy.

That seems like an oversimplification. Those arguments originated with MRA, whether or not this particular poster heard them there. The statistics are peer-reviewed, which is as good as it can ever get. Some of the other arguments should not be dignified with a response.

To my mind, my post communicates the above reasonably well. Nice try with the othering, though. Different standards apply to groups you join by choice, such as ideologies and jargon-users, and groups into which you are born, like gender or sexual orientation.

Are any statistics that differ with your narrative MRA? I am not trying to be rude Imam genuinely curious. I personally get my statistics from people who MRAs call feminists and feminists call MRAs.

The interpretation of the statistics is the key. Under Obama, we spent a lot of money on campus sexual violence awareness and intervention. Either the people in charge were diabolical man haters who coerced women into bearing false witness against their neighbors, particularly in the bible belt, or they uncovered a lot of previously unreported abuse that was already out there. You decide.

It's definitely weird that we increased resources and the number of rapes at colleges seemed to make a big jump.

Edit: I don't know if there's a connection between MRA and racism, so we should close out that part of the argument soon. I would guess that black MRA guys have a somewhat thicker skin about it than most, but that's pure speculation.

Surely, in order for it to be "white guilt tripe", there would have to be some sort of accusation levelled against white people?

Anyway, there are several examples here, including a senator who routinely gets pulled over because police don't believe he owns his cars, and a Harvard professor who got arrested for breaking and entering when police saw him going into his own house.

Just in case there's any confusion, terms like "driving while black" aren't literal. The police officer doesn't stop or arrest them and accuse them of being black. It means that they are assumed to be in the process of committing an offence because they are black.

The sexual violence on campus thing. From what I have seen it is neither. The definition of what is sexual assault was changed and women reported more. Just to be clear I am talking about the 1 in 4 thing. I can fully get behind helping victims of sexual assault though.

Those arguments originated with the feminists who invented them. The counter-arguments are used by MRA's, but certainly aren't all rooted there or limited to people who identify as such. The 1/4 claim is a misrepresentation of data, not a "peer-reviewed statistic". The 77 cents earned (emphasis mine) is accurate, but is frequently presented as 77 cents paid, which is not the same thing at all.



The post I responded to made no reference to any of the above, either implicitly or explicitly, save that you believe being opposed to certain feminist doctrine makes one an "MRA".

N.B. I've placed "MRA" in quotes because they're no more a monolith than are feminists.



If by "nice try" you mean "good job accurately pointing out what it was", then I agree. If you mean to claim that it wasn't what you did, you probably shouldn't have doubled down in this response.



As BettaPonic has publicly stated a lack of identification with MRA - which I see no reason to lie about - I fail to see your point.

If one thing can be said for many of the common arguments used by those who identify as MRAs, it's that they're far closer to being egalitarian than the vast majority of feminist theory I've read and witnessed being promoted, so it isn't at all surprising that someone who considers themselves an egalitarian would reject the latter.



I have no doubt that the reason you feel it necessary to point out that last is, in part, due to the vicious manner in which anyone with so much as an ounce of scepticism is harangued if they dare question feminist "facts".

The other thing about groups that you choose is that people can disagree about who is a member. This whole debate that you want to have annoys me, but then I don't expect to find you receptive to my arguments about hyperbole. I've read some of the last few pages, adifferentname, and your tone doesn't inspire me to engage with you today. Another time, maybe.

From what I have seen of the 77 cent on the dollar is that it is misleading. It takes all the money women earn and all of the money men earn with no regards from anything else. Men tend to gravitate toward such higher earning degrees, work longer hours, more in the workforce, and can be more aggressive in pursuit of a raise. I think that part of it is that's more women tend to raise the kids.

How am I a MRA? I think women face problems and men face problems and that we should all work together. I am more egalitarian.

"That is the privilege you and I as white men enjoy, and so take for granted that we don't even recognize it as privilege."

It also reduces people to statistical averages based on incomplete data, supposition and personal bias, which is a disgusting way of disregarding and disenfranchising those inconvenient outliers who don't fit the narrative.



Nobody is denying the existence of racism. Bill claimed that it doesn't happen to white people because they're white. Unlike Bill, I'm against all forms of hostile or harmful bigotry, not just those that affect the progressive group of the week.



Did anyone suggest otherwise? Us autistic folks may have variable difficulty with metaphor - especially when processing it aurally - but we're nae eejits.

To me the greatest privilege is living in a developed country. We have no worry of a civil war. We can fight back if we are robbed. We have little far of being enslaved. To me race or sex is not the privilege, but money. If you have money you can control the system and get away with crime.

What you just said is called intersectionality, unless you intend to dismiss all other kinds of discrimination.