Anti American sentiment

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Buzzflash has links to respected broadsheets here. Even most of the right-wing media here and Tony Blair have admitted it is doubtful there was wmd in Iraq. No-ne has answered why didnt Saddam use wmd when Iraq was invaded? Why have the allies officially stopped looking for this wmd if it ever existed? I cant believe there is still people out there willing to peddle the wmd and terrorist BS when the civilised world has long since acknowledged this was stickied on lies, and moved on.

The democrats are very split over the Iraq war with 82% saying it was a mistake but the party position is one of leaving it up to the individual decide for themselves. Kerry voted to give Bush the power to go to war if neccesary, but he has stated he would have handled the situation differently by not rushing to war on faulty intelligence and not misleading the US to rush to war the way Bush and co did. Kerry and the rest of the democrats never knew about all the well documented lies that is now coming oput about the war. Anyway im not a democrat spokesman so even if they would have went to war doesnt make it right.

Um, I posted the link to where i got the numbers in the same post i quoted them. It was CNN, though you will find it was the most respected and rigorous study there was on the figures and most world mainstream news channels have reported them. Nothing on this scale is 100% accurate. Nobody will ever know how many Jews were killed in ww2 or Irish people died during the famine but it doesnt stop people quoting figures of at least a million (usually more) to let us know the scale of the deaths.

I agree with you that a lot of reporting is skewed one way or the other. Traditionally it was always skewed towards one's own country but things are changing on that front and today there are people biased against their own country.

Edit, forgot to mention who i was quoting about the bodycounts thing.

"We dont do body counts" General Tommy Franks, Top officer in US central command. Responding to questions of the alarming high death rates of civillians in Afghanistan. Indeed he was correct, the US has stopped doing bodycounts cince the vietnam war were they inflated the numbers to mislead about how well the war was going. This tactic backfired though when the anti-war movement used these figures in a call for US withdrawal.

Last edited by eamonn on 06 Jan 2006, 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes i would. I have also done the same thing on behalf of right-wingers here and Americans as im a believer in free speech, particularly when it is well known that governments lie all the time it is paramount that people enjoy this freedom (i know this is a private site but that isnt to say i cant make a suggestion) even if some use it for what you think of as ill.

The other option is to have an authoritarian regime much like the theocracies you so despise. This is the way things are going but id rather risk getting killed in a bomb blast (no-where near the risk of happening as your everyday pleasures like driving and owning a gun) than have the way the west is going right now with armed guards everywhere and spying willy-nilly on private citizens.

Of course some people would just say im a troll and of course would hate to see other trolls get punished because i like to keep trolling unabated. They can think what they like. I know what im about.

Last edited by eamonn on 06 Jan 2006, 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why creating humankind of course, oh what a mistake that was. Seriously though i took a break from the site and missed this.

Do you really want to go digging up old dirt on people? You wouldn't fare too well yoursef in a mudslinging fight. Hell, I bet if I looked hard enough, I bet I could even find old posts by the moderators where they weren't at their finest that day!

What RobertN said wasnt an arrestable offence was it? I realise this is Alex's site and so it's up to him and his team of moderators to decide what is allowed or not but there has been a lot worse said here by people including myself since iv been here. The only difference being that they werent usually against the US in an american dominated site.

Maybe things are becoming more strict overall for everybody and now we know this is the case we can learn to adjust but the lynch mob on Robert was unfair considering what else has been said on the site without the lynch mob coming out with the torches.

Neither of the two of us are angels but i needed to point out that i am against bannings in general unless neccesary and not hypocritical on this issue like some others appear to be..

I've said it before that I think banning people is a messy buisness, and I think it would be preferable to give RobertN time to find some sense of harmony with the mods and the ToS.

I agree with that totally. Im not used to getting told what i can or cant say by strangers but i think the tolerance that has been shown to me upon returning by the decent moderators of this site has made me think about things in a less black and white way and i believe that this tolerance would help nearly anyone but as i dont know the full story i am reluctant to condemn the action but from the outside it looked extreme to me especially given how his words looked mild compared to some that iv poted in the heat of the moment.

I wish you would face reality. Your no longer playing with your GI Joe figures (are you?) screaming at the top of your voice "America's action force invicible heroes". I know the US is a young nation but this isnt a cartoon or a game. You are talking about real lifes and the price of the US playing these war games is far worse for all concerned than an accidentally poking yourself in the eye. The barefaced denials and disregard towards life shown by people in support of this war has shown me that im in the right to be against it. Dont keep bringing up 9/11 or 7/7 expecting tears people if you dont seem to give a monkey's about people that are killed as a result of US/British government policy.

My apoligies. Your case was the first that i thought of but iv had time to contemplate this and your right it was unfair to bring up your past again, particularly when you werent even a part of the dicussion. I will now edit out all referance to you personally.

Which 82% would that be?? Does that number include say, John Kerry, who changes his mind more often than turnstills at Grand Central Station? I have heard more than a few Democrats changing their mind, just to try to appeal to different voters. They supported it, when it was popular, and as soon as it hit a bump in the road, many changed their minds. While i can not say if that is so of all the nation, i can of many of the Congressmen and many of the attention seeking Democrats that most of the U.S. only ever see or hear from. How many of those same 82% said the U.S. should go, before the Iraq War - version 2.0? I believe that number is therefore misleading. It only shows me, that even many of the Democrats believed U.S. and international allied intelligence reports.

Kerry can say alot of things...after the fact. Its called Hindsight, which is always 20/20. Of course he can BS us with his rants about him doing it different, but how different? I bet even Chaney or Rice, if they were president, would have done it different. You know why?? They are different people. Wow, amazing isn't it??? Different people doing different things and thinking a little differently. Well, that statement is hardly proof of anything. And just because you tell me some no name news source called Buzzflash is legit, does not mean it is. I would hardly stake my reputation on anything Kerry says, you know because like two months from now, he will probably say the complete opposite. He has done it before. He would have done it different alright. One of two ways in fact, he would have waited and waited so long, that even Djimbouti would have nukes, you know cause he could not decide. That can happen when you constantly change your mind. Or or would have repeatedly sent troops in and withdrawn them, and made the situation far worse. I am, of course basing these ideas, on his past records of indecision and wishy washy undecided thinking patterns where he constantly jumps from one side to the other. He is like watching a pro tennis match.

I don't really know how the mods function here. I know that there's always a level of leniency when it comes to enforcing the TOS that varies from forum to forum (GameFAQs, for example, is ruthless about enforcing their TOS, while GameSpot, last I checked, doesn't really enforce at all). I know it's been said before that this forum is moderated more light handedly because politics is a serious subject and people can and will lose their tempers over it. Still, eamonn, you and I were entirely civil with each other despite having nearly opposite points of view, so why can't other people be civil as well?

And in RobertN's case, if it were a one time thing, it'd be different... I can sympathize with someone who hates something, just having to shout and swear about it because you gotta let the stress off somehow. It's when it becomes an MO rather than an outburst that it starts being unacceptable.

Oh, I do face reality. I know the reality of history, facts, and events that caused disasters and more deaths than another path would have caused. And the U.S. is NOT playing wargames, you are belittling the efforts of the U.S. armed forces to say that. What about the people Saddam killed??? Stalin, for instance killed 11 million of his own, probably by the end of WWII...200,000 died building a rail link alone. It was a bloody 8 year War, that Saddam started agains Iran, millions died on both sides. We can speculate about why or why not, were the Scuds he launched armed with Chem weapons or other WMDs, and speculate for years, maybe they were destoryed in U.S. air bombings, maybe they were moved out of the country, maybe they are still hidden. We can still find things, that had been hidden for years, even if no major goverment change was made in that nation. How bout the Underground Railroad hiding spots that are still being uncovered in the Eastern U.S. States?? How does Japan or China have secrets with such dense populations?? I dont know for sure weather he got rid of all his WMDs before the invasion or not, but he may not have. The troops did find bits and pieces of evidence that he was still working on them.

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1) Like the Chem lab trucks, mobile labs they found

2) the empty, but not destroyed, as previous resolutions required them to be, Chemical weapons ammunition found.

3) The nuclear scientists he had working for him, whom we later found out was lying to Saddam about the Nuke development progress for fear of their lives. (but i wonder, how long would that lying have lasted with their lives on the line or if they were killed, would the next crew be so easily intimitated to find a solution?)

4) If the U.S. truly had illegitimate and selfish aims (with Iraq), the U.S. would have conquered Iraq in the First Gulf War, it was a poor decision and mistake that the President at that time did not define the rules of surrender and require Saddam's abdication. But, apparently the President was human, and humans are prone to error.

For your view, I might lean more in favor, it the U.S. really were returning to the Age of Imperialism, as all problems can not be solved by war. Though, to quote an example from History, Neville Chamberlain, let Nazi Germany slide on its WWI peace resolution/treaty during the 1930's when Hitler was rising to power and basically overturning all the issues of that peace settlement. While this is perhaps the most famous example, it is not the sole example of similar instances of national/cultural behaviors in angst to the spirit if not the exact letter of a peace treaty or truce.
After the Civil War, blacks still struggled and many were victims of terrorist groups that formed, for the most part, from the ashes of the Confederacy and even included many of its soldiers terrorizing and killing minorities, despite losing the Civil War, the South did not seem to fully accept it. Jesse James and his gang, were Confederate Veterans, intent on carrying on the fight, but chose a new enemy representative of the North, the railroads. Even John Wilkes Booth, formed a terrorist group which included war vets. In the west North and Sourth vets took trade in crime and law.
General Dian Wei was killed protecting Lord Cao Cao, after the surrender of Zhang Xiu's kingdom, by Zhang Xiu's troops in 197 A.D. when they surprise attacked Cao Cao's Kingdom of Wei army.
One could look at the Trojan Horse tragedy as the false peace that destroyed the city.
Roman General Varus' three legions were wiped out in a Germanic ambush commanded by Arminius ( an ex-roman soldier himself), while traveling in surrendered terroritory with peaceful Germans.


A peace is pretty much worthless if the signers do not live up to their word.

Lets look at the big picture here when people consider war.....

I know!! Let's deal with the people who we have a problem with by killing them!!

Honestly Epimonandas, you can make all the connections, tie-in's, or links you want about Iraq and WMD's, but no one's gonna believe it, myself included, unless someone actually finds them.

I've recently become a right-winger and renounced my left-wing roots. What pisses me off is that China is being allowed to send many people to prisons and death for doing such political dissession as signing a petition online and making peaceful opinions against the decisions of the political elite.

I am hoping soon America will invade China. Then we could really get to the root get to most the world's problems. I'd also like to see India infiltrated with American culture, too. Hell, there's enough army resources for it, I think. If not, just put more funding in and let's sort out this world once and for all.

I'm considering running as a right-wing MP myself. Dictatorships must go. The spread of democracy all over the world must be seen during our lifetime. We must smash down the last remaining savage fools who want to keep on oppressing people with undemocratic political systems.