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Feminist preoccupation with power

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Deinonychus
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10 Apr 2012, 3:41 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Since feminists are ostensibly in favour of gender equality, are feminists ready to relinquish special privileges afforded to women? Including hiring quotas and anti-discrimination laws that give special protections to women?


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A lot of women spend a lot more on fashions, cosmetics, shoes, and clothing than a lot of men. Shall we strive to equal-out these differences?


Those "special privileges" you name are expressly for the purpose of making the playing field closer to EQUAL which it is not out of the gate due to persistent inequality of power. So once the playing field is actually equal, there will be no need for these things.

By the way vehicles of civil rights are not "special privileges." Men are 50% of the population and women are 50%. If there are considerably more of one or the other in any arena that's a clear indicator of inequality and it needs correcting.

I'm not sure where you're going with the shoes and clothes thing. Nobody's being forced to buy anything, there's no violation of civil rights going on there. I go shopping for clothes twice a year and buy a few things each time. I don't wear makeup. I am not getting arrested for being an efficient shopper. Toxic cultural beauty ideas are a problem but that is not the problem we are talking about here...



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10 Apr 2012, 3:46 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Since feminists are ostensibly in favour of gender equality, are feminists ready to relinquish special privileges afforded to women? Including hiring quotas and anti-discrimination laws that give special protections to women?

actually, i think that we should do the reverse and start hiring quotas for men in industries where they are under-represented, such as nursing, child care, retail, and primary teaching.

Equal pay for porn stars?

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
A lot of women spend a lot more on fashions, cosmetics, shoes, and clothing than a lot of men. Shall we strive to equal-out these differences?

well, we'd have to start by changing society so that women are no longer expected to wear makeup or fancy shoes or hair adornments (and so on). then make the available clothing and cosmetics as cheap for women as they are for men. these 2 things would significantly level the costs.

Why blame "society?" Maybe women are just easier to manipulate, because they wish to conform to what they regard as the demands of "society", when, in fact, it is just a handful of moguls who are calling "society's" shots. The moguls decide what styles are going to be fashionable, and the ladies knock themselves out with conforming.

hyperlexian wrote:
Quote:
In fact, being a woman in this country has become an increasingly expensive proposition. It's not just dry cleaning and haircuts where women get socked: We pay more for home mortgages, health insurance, and cars and car repairs (even when we mind our credit, eat right and exercise, and do our homework), not to mention everyday items like deodorant and disposable razors. California, which in 1996 became the first state to ban gender pricing, found that women paid about $1,351 annually in extra costs and fees.

http://www.marieclaire.com/world-report ... n-pay-more

Women do pay less for life insurance and car insurance. Plus, ladies sometimes get special deals that men don't get.



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10 Apr 2012, 3:49 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Since feminists are ostensibly in favour of gender equality, are feminists ready to relinquish special privileges afforded to women? Including hiring quotas and anti-discrimination laws that give special protections to women?

actually, i think that we should do the reverse and start hiring quotas for men in industries where they are under-represented, such as nursing, child care, retail, and primary teaching.

Equal pay for porn stars?


Sure, why not? Though really the people making real money from porn are not the actors, but the (usually male) directors/producers/distributors.

ArrantPariah wrote:
Why blame "society?" Maybe women are just easier to manipulate, because they wish to conform to what they regard as the demands of "society", when, in fact, it is just a handful of moguls who are calling "society's" shots. The moguls decide what styles are going to be fashionable, and the ladies knock themselves out with conforming.


I really hope that's not true.


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Last edited by puddingmouse on 10 Apr 2012, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Apr 2012, 3:49 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
@ ArrantPariah

I think the ones in Mao suits look much cuter.


Yeah, they're more my style, too.



AspieRogue

10 Apr 2012, 3:50 pm

Equality opportunity does not guarantee equal outcome. Seems like many on the left want the latter even more than the former, including some factions of feminism.

And how do you propose driving down the prices of women's clothing to make it equal to that of men's clothing? Men's suits are VERY EXPENSIVE. Even more expensive than most women's dresses.



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10 Apr 2012, 3:51 pm

Women pay less for car insurance because they get into fewer fatal/vehicle totaling accidents than men do. As for 'other deals,' to what do you refer? 'ladies nights' where men try to get more women to come so that they have more potential sexual partners?

As far as other 'deals' like the draft, I'm with the feminists who'd like to see women be allowed greater equality in the military.



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10 Apr 2012, 3:51 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Why blame "society?" Maybe women are just easier to manipulate, because they wish to conform to what they regard as the demands of "society", when, in fact, it is just a handful of moguls who are calling "society's" shots. The moguls decide what styles are going to be fashionable, and the ladies knock themselves out with conforming.


I really hope that's not true.


One might wish, but do you have a better explanation for the phenomenon?



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10 Apr 2012, 3:53 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Equal pay for porn stars?

no, porn should be all unpaid.

ArrantPariah wrote:
Why blame "society?" Maybe women are just easier to manipulate, because they wish to conform to what they regard as the demands of "society", when, in fact, it is just a handful of moguls who are calling "society's" shots. The moguls decide what styles are going to be fashionable, and the ladies knock themselves out with conforming.

some men knock themselves out conforming too - they may buy different products instead of fashion and beauty stuff but it is a difference of degree not of kind.

ArrantPariah wrote:
Women do pay less for life insurance and car insurance. Plus, ladies sometimes get special deals that men don't get.

even accounting for those, we pay more. as per the article.


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10 Apr 2012, 3:53 pm

LKL wrote:
Women pay less for car insurance because they get into fewer fatal/vehicle totaling accidents than men do. As for 'other deals,' to what do you refer? 'ladies nights' where men try to get more women to come so that they have more potential sexual partners?

As far as other 'deals' like the draft, I'm with the feminists who'd like to see women be allowed greater equality in the military.


Ladies nights usually means the ladies drink for free, which in turn, means I do too (if I play my cards right :P )


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10 Apr 2012, 3:53 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Equality opportunity does not guarantee equal outcome. Seems like many on the left want the latter even more than the former, including some factions of feminism.

And how do you propose driving down the prices of women's clothing to make it equal to that of men's clothing? Men's suits are VERY EXPENSIVE. Even more expensive than most women's dresses.


Few men wear suits any more. If necessary, one can always stock up at the thrift store.



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10 Apr 2012, 3:53 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Why blame "society?" Maybe women are just easier to manipulate, because they wish to conform to what they regard as the demands of "society", when, in fact, it is just a handful of moguls who are calling "society's" shots. The moguls decide what styles are going to be fashionable, and the ladies knock themselves out with conforming.


I really hope that's not true.


One might wish, but do you have a better explanation for the phenomenon?


I'm a simple mouse. I have more faith in womankind than that.


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10 Apr 2012, 3:54 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Equality opportunity does not guarantee equal outcome. Seems like many on the left want the latter even more than the former, including some factions of feminism.

And how do you propose driving down the prices of women's clothing to make it equal to that of men's clothing? Men's suits are VERY EXPENSIVE. Even more expensive than most women's dresses.

Women's business suits of equal quality are equally, or more, expensive. In designers' defense, this is partly because men are generally more tubular in shape than women, so a woman's fittes suit requires more actual work than a man's does.
edit: "fitted"



Last edited by LKL on 10 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Apr 2012, 3:54 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
And how do you propose driving down the prices of women's clothing to make it equal to that of men's clothing? Men's suits are VERY EXPENSIVE. Even more expensive than most women's dresses.

no, they aren't.


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10 Apr 2012, 3:55 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Equal pay for porn stars?

no, porn should be all unpaid.


That would be ideal, but it won't ever happen.


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10 Apr 2012, 3:57 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Equal pay for porn stars?

no, porn should be all unpaid.


That would be ideal, but it won't ever happen.


I think guys can get paid equally or more if they do gay stuff


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10 Apr 2012, 3:58 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Why blame "society?" Maybe women are just easier to manipulate, because they wish to conform to what they regard as the demands of "society", when, in fact, it is just a handful of moguls who are calling "society's" shots. The moguls decide what styles are going to be fashionable, and the ladies knock themselves out with conforming.


I really hope that's not true.


One might wish, but do you have a better explanation for the phenomenon?


I'm a simple mouse. I have more faith in womankind than that.


A couple of points wrt the fashion industry: first, a lot of major fashion designers are gay, not heterosexual males. Second, women are breaking in as designers more and more (think Vera Wang wedding dresses). Third, I see a lot of whining from the fasinon industry about how women aren't paying as much attention to major designers as they used to, and also a lot of whining that fashion mags aren't doing as well as they used to.

as a sort of tangential point, female aspies, like male aspies, are far more likely to dress for comfort than for style, so at least with regard to the females on this forum, fashion is a somewhat irrelevant topic.