ZIMMERMAN VERDICT IS IN - NOT GUILTY

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GGPViper
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21 Jul 2013, 3:18 pm

Greb wrote:

Besides that, you have the possibility of T being a drug dealer, based in much more evidences than this school suspension. Here you have a summarize of all evidences that points out it: http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 09316.html

According to it, it's not conclusive that he was a drug dealer, but it's highly likely.

Beforeitsnews.com is a conspiracy website, home of 9/11 Truthers, Obama Birthers and people who claim (I kid you not) that 58 alien species have visited Earth... And the front page even has a story about/by the Sith Lord of all conspiracy theorists... David (Shape-Shifting Reptilians) Icke.

Dox47
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21 Jul 2013, 3:19 pm

simon_says wrote:

Not established in court or anywhere else. Zimmerman's release is not a conviction of Martin.

Had he lived, an assault case against Martin would be far stronger than the murder case that was made against Zimmerman.

Also, considering:

simon_says wrote:

The man was totally unsuited for handling any kind of confrontation.

simon_says wrote:

But a chubby little guy out playing Batman at night should have SOME skills

simon_says wrote:

He's incompetent at best. Which is why the HOA settled with the Martin family.

You're no stranger to drawing on facts not in evidence yourself, which makes you a bit of a hypocrite here.

Zimmerman's jury endorsed version of events is the closest thing we have to the truth right now, and considering that what forensic evidence there is supports his story, from his injuries to Martin's lack of defensive wounds, I think I'm on much firmer ground than you are.

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simon_says
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21 Jul 2013, 3:45 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Had he lived, an assault case against Martin would be far stronger than the murder case that was made against Zimmerman. You're no stranger to drawing on facts not in evidence yourself, which makes you a bit of a hypocrite here.

The difference between you and I is that I have repeatedly said I don't know exactly what happened. I'm drawing distinctions between the legal case, my opinion of zimmerman based on his actions, and what other possibilities remain. Legally the case didnt rise above "reasonable doubt".

Quote:

Zimmerman's jury endorsed version of events is the closest thing we have to the truth right now, and considering that what forensic evidence there is supports his story, from his injuries to Martin's lack of defensive wounds, I think I'm on much firmer ground than you are.

Evidence that you lack imagination and can't see the range of possibilities, yes. If Zimmerman had grabbed or pushed Martin, perhaps violently, as "get off, get off" implies, rather than stuck him, what evidence would remain? We just don't know what happened. Perhaps Martin was defending himself. Play Nostrodamus and claim certainty if that excites you.

Innocent until proven guilty and "beyond a reasonable doubt" are legal terms. And in a legal context it's a shame that you won't afford them to anyone but a fellow gun owner. But that's not a surprise to anyone I'm sure.

Last edited by simon_says on 21 Jul 2013, 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jacoby
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21 Jul 2013, 3:46 pm

I don't think it's that weird if Martin did dabble in drugs and sold a little, a lot of teens do. I certainly knew plenty and they weren't gang bangers or thugs in the least. The stolen jewelry and screwdrivers says more than the drugs in my opinion. There is nothing conspiratorial about it, Trayvon was a punky kid but I don't think that's abnormal.

There simply is no evidence that Zimmerman is a racist tho. Almost everything says the contrary to be honest; He's biracial and part black himself, had many black friends, mentored black children, actually protested against the Sanford police for the beating of an unarmed homeless man who was black.

If anything there is more evidence of Martin being prejudice calling him a "creepy ass cracka" and thinking he was some homosexual rapist. 'Creepy ass cracka' is definitely referring to a white person and that right there shows not credible Rachel Jeantel was as a witness.

There is so much stuff out about this trial that is inaccurate or simply not true, the media bares the blame. They are purposely trying to create racial tension where there is none. They talk about 'Stand Your Ground' when the trial had nothing to do with it. It's all agenda driven and it makes me sick that people let themselves be tricked.

Also for the assault, Trayvon would of been at fault regardless if he threw the first punch or not since he was on top and Zimmerman was the one injured. We know Zimmerman got beat up and we know Martin did it. There was no other possible outcome to this case than not guilty.

simon_says
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21 Jul 2013, 4:01 pm

Jacoby wrote:

It depends what you mean by evidence. Zimmerman's cousin says he is a racist and that he molested her for years. That's just her opinion and racism was not an angle pursued in court iirc. I have no idea if he is or not. But I can't imagine my cousin saying those things about me. lol. It's certainly embarrassing for him.

Quote:

“Growing up, (Zimmerman) and his family always made statements that they didn’t like black people if they don’t act like white people,” the witness, who would be about 27 now, told investigators in the taped conversation. “They like black people if they act white. Other than that, they talked a lot of bad things about black people.”

Max000
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21 Jul 2013, 4:19 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

The police actually recommended that Zimmerman buy a gun instead of using pepper spray in a response to his multiple calls about a loose pitbull in the neighborhood that at one one time cornered his wife.

Yes, I remember that:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/ ... 8H20120425

Good profile from Reuters, all the morons hollering for blood should take the two minutes and read it.

More BS lies from Zimmerman. Most Animal Control Officers don't even carry guns themselves. They are certainly not going to recommend that somebody buy a gun just because of a loose pitbull in the neighborhood. If Animal Control needs to shoot a dog, they will call for a police officer to do it.

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21 Jul 2013, 4:26 pm

I never heard anything more about that accusation, I know that Zimmerman's lawyers said she was just trying to sell the story to make money. I imagine if there was any credibility it would of been used in the trial. I heard somebody say without asking what their source was that Zimmerman and this cousin didn't even live in the same state in this time frame.

The FBI also did their own investigation into Zimmerman and found no evidence of racial prejudice. I just don't think race played a role at all in this case.

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21 Jul 2013, 4:27 pm

simon_says wrote:

I have lots of cousins and at least one is an enemy who would not hesitate to slander me.
Also, I don't remember his cousin testifying under oath.
It's quite possible that it was made up.

Really, how much longer are you going to grasp at straws?

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Last edited by Raptor on 21 Jul 2013, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jacoby
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21 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

Max000 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Yes, I remember that:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/ ... 8H20120425

Good profile from Reuters, all the morons hollering for blood should take the two minutes and read it.

If you don't believe in reuters who do you believe? You're not being objective at all with this case it seems. There are other possibilities as to what happened besides what Zimmerman said but you seem to think you know for a fact.

simon_says
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21 Jul 2013, 4:32 pm

Raptor wrote:

simon_says wrote:

I have lots of cousins and at least one is an enemy who would not hesitate to slander me.
Also, I don't remember his cousin testifying under oath.
It's quite possible that it was made.

Really, how much longer are you going to grasp at straws?

I'm answering someone else's claim that there were no indications of racism from Z. His own cousin said it. As I said, I don't know if it's true and didnt mention it.

That's not grasping at straws. It's a statement of fact in response to another comment. See how it works? Whereas you just put on a hair shirt and dance around crying for silence on a forum. Why? Well, nobody knows and nobody cares.

GGPViper
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21 Jul 2013, 4:46 pm

Jacoby wrote:

They talk about 'Stand Your Ground' when the trial had nothing to do with it. It's all agenda driven and it makes me sick that people let themselves be tricked.

Demonstratively false.

From the official jury instruction:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony." (my emphasis added)

Source (page 12):
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Rel ... ctions.pdf

:roll:

Dox47
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21 Jul 2013, 4:48 pm

Max000 wrote:

You were there and heard the officer's advice yourself?

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21 Jul 2013, 4:51 pm

Max000 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Yes, I remember that:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/ ... 8H20120425

Good profile from Reuters, all the morons hollering for blood should take the two minutes and read it.

Some do carry guns or at least have one in their vehicle for the obvious (to a thinking person) reasons. What an ACO recommended to Zimmerman may have been his own advice and not reflect the policies of the county animal control department.

Quote:

If Animal Control needs to shoot a dog, they will call for a police officer to do it.

Uh huh, well in the real world when something or someone needs shot it often needs to be done right away and not later on when the cops get around to it. I can't expect you to understand that, though.

I could make a case that Zimmerman was profiling the pit bull since this is often the case with pits but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since I am not one of his neighbors and do not know all the facts.

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Raptor
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21 Jul 2013, 5:01 pm

simon_says wrote:

Raptor wrote:

simon_says wrote:

You must have thought Zimmerman's cousin's story had some merit to post that since it does jibe with your beliefs.
Me crying for silence? The OP wanted to have this thread locked if it got to 20 pages (it's now 22) and I argued to keep it open in my own Raptoresque way. What better way to expose the fallacies of the handwringers than by giving them the stage so they can do it themselves?

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Dox47
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21 Jul 2013, 5:02 pm

simon_says wrote:

So, are you just forgetting all the times that I've pointed out that I wasn't there and don't know what happened and have to go by the evidence, or are you deliberately trying to troll me?

simon_says wrote:

Also evidence that you're either horrifically forgetful or being deliberately antagonistic, as I've laid out multiple scenarios for this event since it happened in 2012, in threads that you were also participating in. We could go round and round forever with the what ifs, but we do have a living participant who's version of the event is supported by what evidence and eyewitness testimony there was.

Also, Nostradamus claimed that he could see the future, not read minds...

simon_says wrote:

Innocent until proven guilty and "beyond a reasonable doubt" are legal terms. And in a legal context it's a shame that you won't afford them to anyone but a fellow gun owner. But that's not a surprise to anyone I'm sure.

That's a strong accusation to make, got any proof? I laid out why your behavior is hypocritical, so if you want to accuse me of only extending reasonable doubt to people I supposedly have ideological sympathy for, you'd better bring some evidence to support that accusation. The unsupported assertions of a liar and hypocrite don't count as evidence, just to save you some time.

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21 Jul 2013, 5:38 pm

simon_says wrote:

Actually, evidence of such a push would remain in the body if the person died shortly after it. It takes approximately two hours for light tissue injury (say, the type you get when someone pushes you in the chest schoolyard bully style) to dissipate. In such 'impacts' there is a small amount of blood pooling at the impact point. If the person dies before those two hours the blood remains there and causes a bruise that is seen during the autopsy. Normally your body would dissipate that blood (its why it sorta itches a little bit for some time after you get pushed like that).

It doesn't have to be a violent hulk-smash push to cause this. If its enough to take make you take a step back it will happen.

The autopsy did not find any kind of injury or struggle evidence on T's corpse other than his hands and bullet wound.

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