Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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MaxE
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12 Mar 2022, 1:09 pm

I sort of feel I have to make a contrarian remark here to the extent that I can't help thinking that many are living in a fantasy world in which Putin's "plan" has gone horribly wrong, he's falling apart emotionally, and liable to be relieved of power by his military any day now, etc.

We all assume that Putin expected to roll into Ukraine with minimal resistance and very few casualties, seize control of Kyiv and the Ukrainian government in a week, and declare victory. How do we know that what has happened so far isn't precisely how Putin anticipated? Perhaps Putin considers this the most effective way to deal with Ukraine and NATO. Perhaps he'd like nothing better than a year or more of dragged-out warfare in which the Ukrainian people eventually give up from exhaustion?

I don't know but it's possible. Some of us may need a reality check.

BTW I sincerely hope I'm wrong.


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12 Mar 2022, 1:13 pm

The Ukrainians won’t give up.It’s their homeland.Russia might occupy ,but it will wind up like the Brits trying to subdue Ireland.
Putin won’t back down either as long as he is alive, he would see it as losing face.
Just my opinion.


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magz
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12 Mar 2022, 1:21 pm

MaxE wrote:
We all assume that Putin expected to roll into Ukraine with minimal resistance and very few casualties, seize control of Kyiv and the Ukrainian government in a week, and declare victory. How do we know that what has happened so far isn't precisely how Putin anticipated?
Because in 2014, this plan was successful in Crimea.
Because Ukrainians welcoming Russian soldiers as their saviors was a picture notoriously shown in Russian propaganda recently.
Because no one in Russia is allowed to call it "war" or say anything but Kremlin-approved glorious content, or they risk 15 years in jail.
Because Putin's body language during this war is showing anger and disappointment.
Because this war has put Russia in way worse position in multiple aspects - financial, military, international relations, internal well-being and stability - compared to their starting point.

If this was the plan, it would have been an extraordinarily stupid one.


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MaxE
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12 Mar 2022, 1:25 pm

magz wrote:
If this was the plan, it would have been an extraordinarily stupid one.

Or just an incredibly ruthless one.

I'm not really trying to argue with you though, it's just verbal sparring. I think you have at least as much chance of being right as I.


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magz
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12 Mar 2022, 1:29 pm

MaxE wrote:
magz wrote:
If this was the plan, it would have been an extraordinarily stupid one.

Or just an incredibly ruthless one.
To make his own people poor and his own country weak? I can understand ruthlessness but I don't see any advantage in this.

MaxE wrote:
I'm not really trying to argue with you though, it's just verbal sparring. I think you have at least as much chance of being right as I.
I enjoy verbal sparring, within limits of some logic and contact with reality, that is :)


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funeralxempire
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12 Mar 2022, 1:39 pm

MaxE wrote:
magz wrote:
If this was the plan, it would have been an extraordinarily stupid one.

Or just an incredibly ruthless one.

I'm not really trying to argue with you though, it's just verbal sparring. I think you have at least as much chance of being right as I.


I'm not sure the self-defeating parts would be an example of ruthlessness.

I think Putin buys more into the idea that Ukraine is just Little Russia than Ukrainians do, even many of the ethnic Russian Ukrainians seem to be more invested in Ukrainian national identity. The more the conflict comes to look like conflicts Russia has had in the Caucasus and less like Crimea the more he'll ensure Ukrainians don't want to align themselves with Moscow.

Potentially even he might be changing how much pressure opponents of Lukashenko feel and not in a way that benefits the puppet regime. They don't want to be part of the frontline if this conflict escalates and they don't want their sons and brothers to be killed invading Ukraine because Lukashenko puts Putin's demands ahead of Belarus' interests.


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12 Mar 2022, 2:38 pm

Interesting the fact that , I presented here about Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden’s son , having large business interests in Ukraine , may have been misconstrued as a personal attack here. As apposed to it only being another source of information ? As my entire previous post concerning this entirely disappeared . It wasn’t as if I had written about our biological labs we have in Ukraine. :roll:


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MaxE
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12 Mar 2022, 2:45 pm

Jakki wrote:
Interesting the fact that , I presented here about Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden’s son , having large business interests in Ukraine , may have been misconstrued as a personal attack here. As apposed to it only being another source of information ? As my entire previous post concerning this entirely disappeared . It wasn’t as if I had written about our biological labs we have in Ukraine. :roll:

Your biological labs? Who are we? What are you doing in those labs and why Ukraine of all places? Seems rather an odd choice of location.


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magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:52 pm

MaxE wrote:
Jakki wrote:
Interesting the fact that , I presented here about Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden’s son , having large business interests in Ukraine , may have been misconstrued as a personal attack here. As apposed to it only being another source of information ? As my entire previous post concerning this entirely disappeared . It wasn’t as if I had written about our biological labs we have in Ukraine. :roll:
Your biological labs? Who are we? What are you doing in those labs and why Ukraine of all places? Seems rather an odd choice of location.
Any country with considerable scientific community has some biological labs. That's where biologists work.
Someone is blowing a perfectly normal thing into some crazy plot.


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MaxE
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12 Mar 2022, 2:54 pm

magz wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Jakki wrote:
Interesting the fact that , I presented here about Hunter Biden, President Joe Biden’s son , having large business interests in Ukraine , may have been misconstrued as a personal attack here. As apposed to it only being another source of information ? As my entire previous post concerning this entirely disappeared . It wasn’t as if I had written about our biological labs we have in Ukraine. :roll:
Your biological labs? Who are we? What are you doing in those labs and why Ukraine of all places? Seems rather an odd choice of location.
Any country with considerable scientific community has some biological labs. That's where biologists work.
Someone is blowing a perfectly normal thing into some crazy plot.

You mean a conspiracy theory? OMFG!


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magz
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12 Mar 2022, 2:57 pm

MaxE wrote:
You mean a conspiracy theory? OMFG!

If by "conspiracy theory" you mean some elaborate secret plot resulting in something that could have been as well explained by simply life going on, then yes.


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12 Mar 2022, 4:20 pm

Well, this is pretty awesome:

https://fb.watch/bINUdVjMw0/

16-25k international volunteers on the way. Mostly combat vets. Once in place, it’ll allow secret ops teams from around the world to sneak in as “volunteers.” Good tactic. 8)


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12 Mar 2022, 4:42 pm

Misslizard wrote:
The Ukrainians won’t give up.It’s their homeland.Russia might occupy ,but it will wind up like the Brits trying to subdue Ireland.
Putin won’t back down either as long as he is alive, he would see it as losing face.
Just my opinion.


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If a skunk is on your side, you are doing well. 8)



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12 Mar 2022, 4:45 pm

magz wrote:
MaxE wrote:
We all assume that Putin expected to roll into Ukraine with minimal resistance and very few casualties, seize control of Kyiv and the Ukrainian government in a week, and declare victory. How do we know that what has happened so far isn't precisely how Putin anticipated?
Because in 2014, this plan was successful in Crimea.
Because Ukrainians welcoming Russian soldiers as their saviors was a picture notoriously shown in Russian propaganda recently.
Because no one in Russia is allowed to call it "war" or say anything but Kremlin-approved glorious content, or they risk 15 years in jail.
Because Putin's body language during this war is showing anger and disappointment.
Because this war has put Russia in way worse position in multiple aspects - financial, military, international relations, internal well-being and stability - compared to their starting point.

If this was the plan, it would have been an extraordinarily stupid one.


Self-evident, to most.



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12 Mar 2022, 4:46 pm

magz wrote:
MaxE wrote:
magz wrote:
If this was the plan, it would have been an extraordinarily stupid one.

Or just an incredibly ruthless one.
To make his own people poor and his own country weak? I can understand ruthlessness but I don't see any advantage in this.

MaxE wrote:
I'm not really trying to argue with you though, it's just verbal sparring. I think you have at least as much chance of being right as I.
I enjoy verbal sparring, within limits of some logic and contact with reality, that is :)


Some are more in contact with reality than others.

The reality skunk has spoken. 8)



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12 Mar 2022, 5:07 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Well, this is pretty awesome:

https://fb.watch/bINUdVjMw0/

16-25k international volunteers on the way. Mostly combat vets. Once in place, it’ll allow secret ops teams from around the world to sneak in as “volunteers.” Good tactic. 8)

https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-recru ... 37766.html


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