Right-Wing Cant: Barack Obama as Modern-Day Hitler

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skafather84
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06 Sep 2009, 6:34 pm

flipflopjenkins wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

But keep in mind that Hitler didn't propose gassing the Jews until after he was well-established in power. Had the German people known what he was going to do, they would never have sanctioned it. Once he became a monster, the people were too fearful to stand against him in significant numbers.

He proposed it in -Mein Kampf- which was written during the 1920s. Hitler knew gas very well, being wounded in a gas attack.

ruveyn

The quote about poison gas in Mein Kampf is as follows-

"If at the beginning of the war and during the war twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corruptors of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future."

This is clearly not a proposal to round up all of Europe's Jews and put them into gas chambers. He was just saying that if the few thousand Jews he blamed for Germany's defeat had been in the front line during WWI instead of supposedly subverting behind the scenes, Germany might have won the war.

You've read Mein Kampf?

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Jacoby
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06 Sep 2009, 6:59 pm

I haven't but I think a lot of people read it for school.

ruveyn
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06 Sep 2009, 7:08 pm

flipflopjenkins wrote:

This is clearly not a proposal to round up all of Europe's Jews and put them into gas chambers. He was just saying that if the few thousand Jews he blamed for Germany's defeat had been in the front line during WWI instead of supposedly subverting behind the scenes, Germany might have won the war.

A.H. was still a beginner when he wrote -Mein Kampf-. He was just getting warmed up.

ruveyn

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07 Sep 2009, 2:57 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

He proposed it in -Mein Kampf- which was written during the 1920s. Hitler knew gas very well, being wounded in a gas attack.

ruveyn

Granted, but the German people didn't believe he would actually do it until he started doing it.

Lots of monsters telegraph their intentions, but people aren't willing to take that at face value. They wait for the "proof," and by the time they get it, it is too late to stop what's happening.

What a lovely bit of conspirarcy insinuation.

Nope. It's fact. Read up on Nazi Germany and what the German people felt about Hitler once he was gone. At first, they loved him. Once they saw the monster that he was, those who didn't support him said nothing out of fear of what might happen to them. They didn't take the things he said and wrote before his rise to power very seriously.

I'm not disputing the fact. What I am disputing is that your stating this under a backdrop of "Obama is Hitler-esque".

Let's break down the implications of Obama being Hilter-esque, shall we?

1) Since Obama's basically delegates most decisions to Rahm Emmanuel, that means Emmanuel is Hitler-esque.
2) Emmanuel is Jewish.
3) A Jew is Hitler-esque.

Please continue, madam or sir.

Master_Pedant
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07 Sep 2009, 4:14 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are not leftwingers.

They're not LaRouche followers now are they? Think the young woman was who Barney Frank berated a few week ago. They've been on that wagon before anyone.

The LaRouche movement isn't leftwing. It's a mixture of many disparte ideologies plus one man's enormous vanity.

Quote:

I don't listen to Rush so I don't know what he's saying

Let me inform you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8w-Ll0JXSU[/youtube]

Quote:

but I'll catch Beck sometimes and I don't think everything he's saying is ridiculous. Yes he goes too far sometimes

A majority of the time.

Quote:

but he's one of the only guys in the mainstream media talking about Obama's "czars". Van Jones(byebye), Cass Sunstein, John Holdren, Mark Lloyd, Carol Browner etc. are as radical as it can get. You wonder why Obama gets called the things he does, look at the guys he has around him. Not to mention, that whole czar concept seems unconstitutional to me too and now it's being brought to a new level with the Obama administration.

I love how Van Jones said there was a vicious smear campaign against him too when he was brought down with his own words and ideas. Look in all the articles about Van Jones resigning and you'll notice the admission that he's self-avowed communist working as the green jobs czar. What type of jobs do you think a communist wants to make? I'm not even going to get into the other stuff with this guy but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

You're either blatantly dishonest or intellectually reckless (by remaining so ignorant). Van Jones hasn't been a communist since his youth just like you won't be a rightwing conspiracy theorist as you age.

But for people who care about facts rather than chalkboard conspirarcies here they are:

-Van Jones was fired because he, like you, was intellectually reckless. His recklessness was in absentmindedly signing a conspiracy theorist statement, quite like you’re propagating a conspiracy theory about Jones. The difference is Van Jones didn’t know the full content of the banality he was spreading, whereas you do.
-VAN JONES HAS SUPPORTED MARKET-BASED (i.e. friendly to America's corporate plutocracy) solutions.
- He has never been arrested and convicted. The one occasion he was arrested was in a mass arresting that occurred when a riot broke out, which he did not partake in and was later set free.
- Jones was an congressionally accountable advisor not a “czar”.

LINK

Final fact…

Glenn Beck has failed to release his 1990 criminal records to dispel rumours certain people are advancing. Listen, I’m not saying I believe them … but some people do!

pakled
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07 Sep 2009, 4:22 pm

I tried reading Mein Kampf over a summer once...lawsie, if I was forced to read that drivel, invading Poland would seem like a picnic. I got about 700 pages in (about 2/3rd), and gave up.

I have listened to Rush before (usually right before Big Ed, and Air America), and he's an amusing conservative, which is rare and strange enough to make it interesting.

But if you don't listen to the opposition, how can you defend against them?

Jacoby
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07 Sep 2009, 5:30 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

The LaRouche movement isn't leftwing. It's a mixture of many disparte ideologies plus one man's enormous vanity.

The term I used was fringe left but I'll punt on this one. They're a weird group.

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Do you really think Van Jones was with in the mainstream of the democratic party?

I don't know what you're talking about at the end either. Elaborate.

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07 Sep 2009, 5:47 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

The LaRouche movement isn't leftwing. It's a mixture of many disparte ideologies plus one man's enormous vanity.

The term I used was fringe left but I'll punt on this one. They're a weird group.

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Do you really think Van Jones was with in the mainstream of the democratic party?

I don't know what you're talking about at the end either. Elaborate.

1) No, I don't think Van Jones is within the mainstream of the DLCist Democratic Party Establishment. He's not enough of a political eunuch. He is closer to the mainstream of the base, though (he's still a bit rightward of it, though).
2) This alleged crime is too heinous to repeat in such a pure web forum. Needless to say simply Googling "Glenn Beck crime 1990" will give you an idea on what these widespread, yet to be disproved allegations are. When 83% of respodents on a poll taken by 14,000 people believe a rumour you know there must be something too it!

Jacoby
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07 Sep 2009, 6:12 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

I really am confused to how you don't find Van Jones a radical. I know he is now for "free market" solutions but he's also quoted in saying something along the lines of forgoing the cheap radical pose for the deep satisfaction of the radical end" whatever that means. Not to mention his openly racist views.

I looked it up and it seems to be some sort of parody. <_<

flipflopjenkins
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07 Sep 2009, 6:48 pm

skafather84 wrote:

You've read Mein Kampf?

I started it, but I didn't finish it. I've still got it in a drawer somewhere.

skafather84
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07 Sep 2009, 6:52 pm

flipflopjenkins wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

You've read Mein Kampf?

I started it, but I didn't finish it. I've still got it in a drawer somewhere.

I've yet to hear of anyone who has read it all the way through.

I haven't read it, myself....to be honest, I doubt I could...the barrier between German and English keeps most literature from being interesting enough when translated. I have a time with the good stuff like Jung and Kafka rather less someone who I perceive as an utter failure like Dolf was.

Master_Pedant
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07 Sep 2009, 9:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

1) "Radical ends" means the more idealistic ends of radicalism - liberty, fairness, equality, what have you. One doesn't have to be Robespierre (or use his detestable means) to achieve the "radical end" of de-feudalization.
2) What specifically racist views are you speaking about (with sources please).

If Obama appoints Noam Chomsky as Secretary of State then I'll admit to a radical in the administration. Thus far all I've seen is countless DLCists in key administrative positions and a few "Market-Based" quasi-progressives as advisors.

Back to Beck...

There's still absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he didn't commit the crime!

Jacoby
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08 Sep 2009, 3:37 pm

My interpretation of what he meant with that quote was he'd appear more mainstream so he could accomplish his radical agenda. I'm not too worried about Van Jones leading a bloody revolution to overthrow the government now or ever.

I think you can find the numerous videos and quotes Van Jones where he talks about race.(pretty much every video he's in) Being a black nationalist speaks for itself I think.

The problem with that parody (not to overthink this ) is that criminal records are public record and you can't withhold it from anyone.

Master_Pedant
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08 Sep 2009, 4:12 pm

Jacoby wrote:

) is that criminal records are public record and you can't withhold it from anyone.

1) A slew of short, potentially out of context, quotes don't verify anything. I want specifics.

2) Still doesn't verify that Glenn Beck didn't commit that crime until we see a proved true alibi.

Jacoby
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08 Sep 2009, 4:42 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

) is that criminal records are public record and you can't withhold it from anyone.

What do you think about him describing himself as a black nationalist? I think that's a racist philosophy. White nationalism definitely is. That's not something you can just renounce. Combine that with the quotes(these are just off the top of my head but I'm sure you can find even more) about how white pollutants and environmentalists "were steering poison into communities or color", only white people commit school shootings, the organization he founded saying Bush ordered the national guard to go down to New Orleans and shoot people, etc. I don't believe his excuse that he didn't know what he was signing on to or was put on with permission on that "9/11 truther" website. I think it's consistent with his beliefs.

Van Jones really isn't even the worst one in my opinion. He just had a bunch youtube videos and quotes out there in plain view. Cass Sunstein and John Holdren in particular are just goofy.

skafather84
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08 Sep 2009, 4:44 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

) is that criminal records are public record and you can't withhold it from anyone.

Can you give some evidence that he said he was a black nationalist? And are you sure he meant it as the kind of nationalism like that of the Nazis and the Zionists?

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